I used to spend a great deal of time on VATSIM. Normally flying as part of an organization such as the Virtual United States Coast Guard (www.vuscg.org). The lack of controlled areas was not that big of a concern to us because we had our own operations to contend with. However, I was never impressed with VATSIM's support for organizations such as the vuscg. They eventually added so many rules concerning how we operated, that it lost its appeal. I eventually transitioned to twin turbo-prop flights of a civilian nature, on my own schedule. Like many, I stopped using VATSIM when FS2004 came out, and the software became to much of a pain. I got it working, and it worked well, but it was too much hassle. I imagine I will return to their skies when a new client such as SB3 comes to light. As I do enjoy the realistic procedures from time to time.In the meantime, myself and the community I have helped build use a simple FSHost server to fly together online. It uses the default built-in multiplayer support that comes with the game, so it is technically easy for new comers (many of our members are). But it is not without its hassles and shortcomings. As many people have problems connecting, and staying connected due to router configurations and other networking/firewall issues that can sometimes disrupt the entire group (it is peer-to-peer, not client-server).Despite the connection challenges, it is simple for most, and we enjoy the flight time because we can fly with very few restrictions, and simulate a wide range of activities.Jordan Moore

While sitting here controlling at Atlanta, I had to reply to this post and others about the "stuffy" controllers telling you what to do and following procedures, etc. My question is, do you want realistic ATC or light-hearted, no procedure stuff? We study hard to learn all the correct procedures and use them to be as realistic as we can be. And yes, it's mostly "big iron", but we welcome and handle VFR GA traffic as well.

From What Ive read over the years, there are not enough ATC volunteers to cover all airfields. Many never fly big Iron, and like to fly local fields. It's not very realistic for those who want to fly small GA aircraft, to be landing in Ohare or LAX, etc... If there were some way to do more promotion in Forums like AVsim, maybe a forum for ATC about basics. Might attract more volunteers willing to handle small Muni fields, with less traffic. If training is done realistically, HS students who might be interested in ATC jobs, might be interested in participating. Getting someone to post a notice on HS bulletin boardss where there is Aviation training might generate interest. Many on AVSim may never visit any forum where this may be discussed.... but here it would be "in their face." ;-)Bob

Gee... this threaad is still going strong.Here's a recent example. After reading many of the threads I said to myself I would give on-line another shot. This time it would be Flight Project Internation FPI as I have been very curious to see the smooth AI they are promoting plus how easy they claim to install, setup and run.So I d/l the required files (3-4). Seemed Like I was doing the correct install procedures but after 3 evenings of set-up I still am not able to select an aircraft for a flight or see any AI aircraft. Yes, I seeked help on their forum, yes I tried several installs... but you know what, I finally just gave up. The problem I'm sure must be on my end, but for what ever reason the simple set-up was not so simple. Especially for a first-timer. I lost interestr. So once again another potential on-line simmer has walked away with a bad taste in his mouth. I hope the on-line officials are reading these posts and re-evalute ways to improve their services. I believe they are trying to but it ain't quite there yet.

I personally love flying online. It's a lot more realistic than single player except maybe for the volume of traffic. However, this is not always a factor as mentioned above especially during big online events. During the "Battle for Atlanta" event, I NEVER switched to unicom once! And the traffic volume was very realistic. I couldn't fly too slow or too fast or else I might have screwed up the ATC system! It was great.About private channels for private chatting, they exist. Virtual Airlines use their own for when they're not under ATC. (You must be using voice, though.) The way to do it by text is to type ".msg CALLSIGN your message".

I am an active member of VATSIM and have flown over 700hrs online. Those that can afford a 2nd computer the best and most trouble free setup is to use the 2nd computer for all the online software including AS2004, SB, AVC, WhazzUp, ServInfo, Fs Flight Keeper and any other software you can run using WideClient. This free's up the 'main' computer to run FS2004 without resource issues, stuttering and all the other problems associated with running multiple program on a single computer.I have recently starting using UT to compare the experience "off line flying" the most noticeable difference is there is no "tension". When you are dealing with a 'live' ATC controller the last thing you want to do is screw up even thou the controllers are very forgiving. Online flying with 'live' ATC is the future of our hobby. Its as real as it gets. *:-* Good topicRegards,Andrew.

Why do I not fly "online"?Because in my opinion VATSIM (and the others) are more difficult to join than applying for a job with the real UK ATC service (NATS) and have no ATC available apart from near major airports zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.I would possibly join VATSIM (or VacuouSim as well call it) if they..1) Simplified the membership proceedure.2) Remembered that FS is a GAME not a military organisation.3) Had an effective virtual ATC system around the world.RegardsAdam

>Why do I not fly "online"?>2) Remembered that FS is a GAME not a military organisation.yep that kinda sucks the fun out of it... why cant there be a online FS where you can just have fun... im sure everyone is mature enough in the FS world not to real anyone elses experance in such a online envroment.

"Online flying with 'live' ATC is the future of our hobby"hmmm........then the future is a long long long way off...... when VATSIM has nearly 24/7 ATC in all areas of the world that sim pilots wish to fly then we'll have something, until then, I'll stay away from VATSIM and it's various cousins.Randy Jura, KPDX

>>2) Remembered that FS is a GAME not a military organisation.>That's the dumbest argument I have read here. Real ATC is not 'military' organization either yet some structure is required otherwise no one would be able to fly anywhere. It is reasonable to expect that whoever wants to use VATSIM (or equivalent) must obey some rules like in the real world ATC. If this is just a GAME for you then you definitely don't belong there because many folks who use their services want to stay close to real world ATC terminology/procedures. Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

Mikkel,About 6 months ago I tried for about 2 solid weeks to get VATSIM working on my rig. I had some real problems and made several pleas for help on various web site forums. What I found was interesting and frustrating at the same time.First, the VATSIM web site was good. But having to logon each and everytime you access the help tutorials was frustrating and tedious. Actually, I had to access the help files so much that the logon became a real annoyance. Is the info contained there some kind of secret?Regardless, I gave it my best shot. I used the tutorials, but found some independant explanations to be much easier to understand. So, I spent 2 weeks worth of evenings trying to get this working. And it never did. I asked for help and just got some answers pointing me back to the tutorials.Let me tell you, after two weeks of spending each and every evening trying to get VATSIM to work. . .I came to a conclusion. I was not having fun. So, I gave up and went back to FLYING my PC. And yes, one of only 2 times I have ever given up on trying to get a program to work.Maybe I will try again one day. Maybe soon as I understand SB3 is a major advancement. So, maybe they've worked out some more kinks. All told, they really need to do something about reducing all the piecemeal software you have to install to get this working. Either that, or set up some kind of front-end that will easily launch one on-line start-up, in stead of have to start 4-5 separate programs each time you start up.

> Either that, or set up some kind of front-end>that will easily launch one on-line start-up, in stead of have>to start 4-5 separate programs each time you start up.> THat's what SB3 is all about - one click and you're on.Just have a little more patience- it IS getting closer.>yep that kinda sucks the fun out of it... why cant there be a online >FS where you can just have fun... im sure everyone is mature enough >in the FS world not to real anyone elses experance in such a online >envroment.Try MS Gaming zone- sound to me like what you're after.Dave

I for one have flown/controlled online for nearly 4 years now and i can say i have never looked back!The FSATC is in my view no WAY near to real, I live in Ireland and i can tell you FSATC is U.S. based for everyone flying outside of the U.S. and know a bit about the countries ATC procedures will be disappointed with it.We had a Flightsim/Aviation show in Dublin back in september of this year and we (VATEIR) had a stand with 5 controllers controlling online on VATSIM and we got a HUGE response off the general public, TV, Radio, people could not believe what we where doing (people who fly offline at home) and the people who where flying online at the show had ALOT of people following there movements online.I know some people dont like flying online because its daunting and challenging but you have to remember that 99% of the online community where all new to it on joining and the urban legend of controllers biting you head off if you do something wrong is rubbish because they know what it was like to be "new" unless you get a controller on an ego trip (which is very very rare).As far as getting connected to VATSIM being a pain, well SB3 will eleviate that problem ;-)Im my opinion give it a try and if it does'ent float ur boat then you can always stay flying offline:-).John CVATEIRwww.vateir.netwww.ifsd.ie

I mainly fly USA west coast flights. I expect to expand to the pacific and the rest of the USA, but sadly it seems there arent many USA controllers. I never see controllers for the west coast and its a waste of time to go through teh work of logging on to be more alone online than off-line. AI is sparce off-line but you know it will always be there. ATC is awkward off-line, but atleast its there.I dont want to hope and pray for the chance to interact with one controller over the course of 2 or more hours and 500nm.

For me, it's pretty much me being on dialup with only 1 phone line in the house. So, I can't spend long periods of time online during the day when I'm more likely to be flying. I don't fly very often at night when I can get online without problems. I'm hoping to get broadband soon, though, so that could possibly change...About the most I've done on vatsim, though, is a couple livewire flights in uncontrolled airspace, and a leg or two of the last Avsim-flightsim.com world race also in uncontrolled airspace..Hoping to try it again once I can get broadband and SB3 comes out..