Hi,

 

I tried searching for this first, but most of the threads containing answers directed folks to links that are dead now (i.e. Planepath).  Also http://support.precisionmanuals.com/KB/a60/pmdg-navdata-glossary.aspx didn't seem to reference the same format of runway file.

 

Anyway, I'm trying to add a missing airport to the FMC navigation database, I'm stumped on the runways.

 

For the following piece of sample data from ARPT_RWY.DAT:

 

AP;EGVN;BRIZE NORTON            ;51.749961;-1.583639;285
RW;08;51.746092;-1.604114;285;10855;076;076;10007
RW;26;51.753875;-1.561775;248;10855;256;256;10007
FS;08;51.746086;-1.604164;288;11190;076;076;9984
FS;26;51.753876;-1.561755;288;11190;256;256;9984

1.  What are the FS lines?

2.  What does the last value represent on each of the RW/FS lines?  It seems to me that the value before the heading is the runway length, but I don't know what the last value is.

 

So far my interpretation of this format is:

Airport Line:
RecType;ICAO;NAME;LAT;LON;ELEVATION


RW Line(s):
RecType;RWYNUM;THRESH_LAT;THRESH_LON;ELEVATION;LENGTH;HEADING;HEADING(again?);????

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Charlie Powell

Possibly available landing runway length (assuming a displaced threshold)?   And perhaps the second heading would be different with a non-straight-in approach (such as KDCA 19)?  Just some guesses.

 

Mike

 

 

What does the last value represent on each of the RW/FS lines? It seems to me that the value before the heading is the runway length, but I don't know what the last value is.

Did a little looking in the files.  The number after the elevation is the ILS or localizer frequency w./out the decimal.  The second heading is for an offset approach.  The last number is the runway length.

 

Mike

I don't think this file is used by the FMS, I believe it is used by the RAAS program. The two files that you need to look at for adding airports is the airports.dat and wpnavapt.txt. Search for VHHX airport information because there are several sources for adding the legacy airport to current navdata.

http://digital-aviation.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3661

 

 

I don't think this file is used by the FMS, I believe it is used by the RAAS program. The two files that you need to look at for adding airports is the airports.dat and wpnavapt.txt. Search for VHHX airport information because there are several sources for adding the legacy airport to current navdata.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Charlie Powell

 

Dan, I think you are correct.  The ARPT_RWY.DAT file has a different date and isn't in the backup navdata folder.  

 

Charlie, it looks like you need to add the airport fix in airports.dat, the runway info in wpnavapt.txt, and maybe the ILS IDs and frequencies in wpnavaid.txt.  Be sure to back up all these files before editing them.  Try just modifying the first two files first -- the FMCs may be picking up the ILS frequencies from scenery/airport data.

 

If you want SIDs and STARs, you would need to create a file in the SIDSTARS folder as well.

 

Mike

Hello Charlie,  I looked up your airport code EGVN, which is not listed in the ICAO list, plus, Brize Norton is a military airport in the UK. With you listed as living in CA, I wondered why you selected this airport.  Just curious.  Richard Welsh.

Thanks to everyone one for the helpful posts. 

 

 

 

Hello Charlie,  I looked up your airport code EGVN, which is not listed in the ICAO list, plus, Brize Norton is a military airport in the UK. With you listed as living in CA, I wondered why you selected this airport.  Just curious.  Richard Welsh.

 

Hi Richard,

 

I use Air Hauler, and I have a company in the UK.  I used Brize Norton as a base for Company Ops. (Military airfields cost less and have long runways.)  I was using EGTG-Filton.  That one was alsonot in the database, but I learned that it was actually closed in 2012, and the runway was broken up.

 

Ocassionally, AH generates jobs to airports not in the Database, so I'm just trying to figure out how to make those flights.

This is an old topic,  but I hope someone can tell me what the "RW" and "RS" stand for at the beginning of the

lines in some of these airport data files.  At first I believed that RW stood for runway,  but now I'm not so sure ~

 

Also in the wpnavapt.txt file how is a typical line decoded ? >>

example :

MEMPHIS INTL KMEM27 08946271 35.057781 -89.955856108.7027100292

 

Some of the data is obvious of course. And I'm guessing that the "08946271" refers to length and heading. And that

appears to be followed by Lat / Lon. I guess what puzzles me most is the length of the Longitude, especially where

it extends past the second decimal point.

Any help with this will be appreciated.

Best to all,

Ken

 

 

This is an old topic,  but I hope someone can tell me what the "RW" and "RS" stand for at the beginning of the
lines in some of these airport data files.  At first I believed that RW stood for runway,  but now I'm not so sure ~

 

My bet would be Real World and Flight Sim.  Those are pretty standard acronyms in the FS realm, aren't they?

 

Remember that the AIRAC comes from a RW source, but FS may be different because of the scenery that is installed (either default or add-on).  As such, certain nav data must make note of both.

My bet would be Real World and Flight Sim. Those are pretty standard acronyms in the FS realm, aren't they?

RW is definitely Runway. My copy of that file has no FS lines in it, but it probably refers to where FSX has put the runways.

 

 

Also in the wpnavapt.txt file how is a typical line decoded ? >>

example :

MEMPHIS INTL KMEM27 08946271 35.057781 -89.955856108.7027100292

 

This is a bit like the real world nav data format, ARINC 424, in that data fields do not all have spaces to delimit them. A space is a waste of space. So you get strings of apparently meaningless digits unless you know where each part begins and ends, or you work it out by spotting similarities to real world information.

 

I've added a vertical line where the data appears to divide.

 

MEMPHIS INTL KMEM27 08946¦271 35.057781 -89.955856¦108.70¦271¦00292

 

The string 08946 is probably as you guessed: runway length in feet, 271 is runway mag heading. 35.057781 is the latitude (decimal degrees) and -89.955856 is the longitude. 108.70 is the ILS frequency. 271 is the LOC inbound course. 00292 most likely is the threshold elevation in feet.

 

Hope this helps.

That makes sense Kyle. My Navigraph PMDG data files are ~ 60% RW lines, and ~40% FS. I'm thinking "Real World" and "Flight Sim" now.  I also agree with Kevin regarding

the "FS" lines referring to where FSX puts the runways.  The next burning question seems to be > Why BOTH the RW,   AND the FS lines are needed at many of the airports.

Seems that the airports and runways appear in multiple files and different formats.   I'm sure it's necessary, but it complicates the process of figuring out exactly what goes

where.  Also noticed at the top of at least one of the files was a record of how many airports are included.  Also wonder how important it is to have any added airports

and airport + runways appear in a specific order in each file.  All this makes a good case for trying to determine exactly how VHHX is added to these files,  and lacking

any hard and fast procedure,  I think this will be my next odor of business ~

Best regards,

Ken

Thank you for breaking down the code Kevin.  It was the ILS freq and alt at the end of the lines that had me stumped.

 

Anyone know if it matters where the newly added airports appear on the file's data line sequence ?  Or can they be added

to the list at the top, bottom, or after any airport that is already on the list ?  And,  how critical is the sequence in which the

airports are organized in the data files ?  And,  must the sequence in one of the data files equal (or relate) to the sequence

of the lines (airports / runways) in other data file(s) ? 

 

I'm still working on adding the 3 McMurdo area airports and their runways to the data files. There are sure to be lots of zeros

where ILS / LOC freqs would normally appear ~   I'll follow up later.

Best regards,

Ken

In the other thread current on this topic Ryan mentioned the ARPT_RWY.DAT file was a kind of cache so you don't need to maintain it. Airport.dat is the source file. That might explain why I don't have any of the FS lines you mentioned. I suspect they are created by the users actions in the sim. For example if a map shift occurs when TOGA is selected.

 

It may turn out to be necessary to add RW lines to ARPT_RWY.dat when you add a new airport but I suspect the FS entries appear by themselves.

Thank you Kevin.  I will keep this ideas in mind as I press on with my Antarctica (McMurdo) project.

I presently have succeeded in getting the PMDG FMC to accept NZPG (McMurdo Pegasas) on the

initialization page.  But unfortunately have had no success so far having the NZPG runways appear

on the DEP page.  I'm sure that I've added the rwy lines to the wpnavapt.txt file in the correct format;

but I've obviously missed something.  I've inserted some of my custom wpnavapt.txt NZPG lines below with

a known good line for comparison. Let me know if anything looks "strange"  ~

 

"BASE MARAMBIO SAWB24 04134240-64.236667 -56.618611000.0024000740 " ;; Example of known good line (ignore quotes)

 

MCMURDO PEGASUS NZPG15 11023015-77.952156 166.489482000.0001500000 ;; My custom added NZPG lines

MCMURDO PEGASUS NZPG33 11023195-77.980339 166.538582000.0019500000

MCMURDO PEGASUS NZPG08 10000309-77.957195 166.552157000.0030900000

MCMURDO PEGASUS NZPG26 10000129-77.958887 166.682206000.0012900000

 

My NZPG runway headings are referenced to "True" North since I understand that in the real world "True North"

headings are used in most of Canada and near the poles due to the large magnetic variations in those areas.

I believe that many (if not all) runway headings in the database are referenced to True north.

I'm open to any / all suggestions.

Ken