Martin, do you have VSync off, or at 1/2 refresh rate?

 

 

Hi Noel.

 

I have VSync on currently. Have tried it the other day with it off as an experiment. It doesn't seem to matter if it's off or on. No tearing, and I don't really seem to have input lag. To be honest, I'm not even sure what input lag looks like.

 

I don't use the 1/2 refresh rate setting, I don't like it. That would be 60 FPS of course, I have tried the 1/4 setting too.

 

Like qasim_787, it's not smooth for me.

 

I currently have frame rate set to unlimited, and no external limiter. Fantastic increase in frame rate [30%] and no stutters.

 

I can only think, like you implied before, that the fact that I have sliders at a reasonable level, and no payware ultra-detailed airports, that it pays great dividends.

 

You know my other settings, same as I sent you. Except with my new GTX 770, I'm now at 8xS combined plus 2xSGSS for AA.

currently have frame rate set to unlimited, and no external limiter. Fantastic increase in frame rate [30%] and no stutters.

 

I can only think, like you implied before, that the fact that I have sliders at a reasonable level, and no payware ultra-detailed airports, that it pays great dividends.

 

You know my other settings, same as I sent you. Except with my new GTX 770, I'm now at 8xS combined plus 2xSGSS for AA.

Good Lord I'm glad I read your comment carefully! I think I was the person who helped others here appreciate the value of unlimited + an external limiter:

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/245251-dont-miss-this-one-a-new-fsx-optimizer/

 

Since then which was a while back I've always believed the best approach was UNLIMITED internally and limiting frames externally. What I hadn't tried for many years was just eliminating the frame limiter, external or internal. I tried Vsync off and wow, same same: frames up in the 80's while in the air--as high as 160 over areas w/ not much happening while at altitude, and while at KSAN last even trying this out in the T7 I'm seeing 52 at the gate and down to 34 while taxiing, then it did drop down to 28-29 while TO, but right back up to over 30 again. The interesting part is: very smooth, no stutters, no tearing! And no surges which is what I was trying to restrain initially when I tried the first limiter for that purpose. I found maximum smoothness seemed to happen when I tried Vsync to ON, however I did get the vertical spikes when panning--not many, but a few. I do get very solid performance using Inspector's external limiter at 30 and UFL=0, however there absolutely doesn't seem to be a downside in terms of smoothness, tearing or what have you just leaving the limiter off. And I think performance overall is enhanced--i.e., I'm not seeing ANY problem w/ this including texture loading issue and lowest frame rate does definitely improve. I haven't tried this in FTX scenery but did at the gate also at FB's KSFO which is fairly hard on frames and at the gate there I saw 32, dipping to 26-30 at certain parts of taxi to 28L. Prior to removing the external limiter I might see 28 at the gate there. The real improvement comes w/ UNLIMITED, but as I say there doesn't seem to be a downside to not using the external limiter whereas way back when I had issues w/ video surging/lurching that the limiter resolved.

 

Anyway, the plot thickens. I wonder how many folks here have NOT tried this combination w/ modern hardware.

 

I'm curious to what is causing the vertical spikes though when I set VSync to on. Maybe its the 60Hz screen that is the difference. I notice the same issue w/ Vsync at 1/2 refresh and not using the external limiter at 30. I use SuperCVAA 64x 4v12 and that combined w/ 8xSuperSampling is my preferred setting as I find SparseGridSS to soft looking.

 

But tbh if you are getting 18fps, without sounding rude, its maybe time you did upgrade....theres only so much software and drivers can do.

 

If you never get close to 18fps in FSX at any time, then you are not trying hard enough! Even the most powerful PC will struggle in super high density scenery areas with lots of autogen, AI planes, complex weather etc.

If you never get close to 18fps in FSX at any time, then you are not trying hard enough! Even the most powerful PC will struggle in super high density scenery areas with lots of autogen, AI planes, complex weather etc.

I do not go below 30 and I use orb x, rex hd textures, xtreme airports, utx, gtx, pmdg airplanes, shade, and a whole bunch of other add ons.

 

I have a i7 3930k at 4.5 ghz and 2 titans in sli.

 

I cant try much harder.

I do not go below 30 and I use orb x, rex hd textures, xtreme airports, utx, gtx, pmdg airplanes, shade, and a whole bunch of other add ons.

 

I have a i7 3930k at 4.5 ghz and 2 titans in sli.

 

I cant try much harder.

 

Sure you can!  Unfortunately, this doesn't tell anyone much, other than that you don't go below 30--in the situations you fly in.  The addons are only one parameter.  Here, try this and tell us what you see:

 

1.  Set up FSX so that EVERY SINGLE SLIDER is hard right:  traffic, autogen, clouds, absolutely everything.  Ground shadows ON.  Everything!

2.  Make sure FTX 3D lights are ON.

3.  Set LOD manually to 6.5 by editing fsx.cfg, avoiding opening display settings in FSX after you've made this edit.  Turn BLOOM to ON while you're there.

4.  Set weather to Heavy Storms or whatever the canned one that goes by a similar name.

4.  Using Inspector, set your AA to at least 8xS, 16x AF.  Your call on internal frame limiter set at 30 or leave it off--it won't matter much on the lowest of reported frame rates, though the high end will be as high as you can go.  Use Full Screen.

4.  If you have FTX PNW, go to KSEA RWY 34R at Dawn in the PMDG NGX.

  

Report your frame rate in the VC ready for takeoff, engines running.  Yes, of course this is a set of conditions not commonly used for obvious reasons, but it serves to illustrate it's more than add ons that determine how a machine processes what's moving thru it.  Standing by to be amazed ...

Sure you can! Unfortunately, this doesn't tell anyone much, other than that you don't go below 30--in the situations you fly in. The addons are only one parameter. Here, try this and tell us what you see:

 

1. Set up FSX so that EVERY SINGLE SLIDER is hard right: traffic, autogen, clouds, absolutely everything. Ground shadows ON. Everything!

2. Make sure FTX 3D lights are ON.

3. Set LOD manually to 6.5 by editing fsx.cfg, avoiding opening display settings in FSX after you've made this edit. Turn BLOOM to ON while you're there.

4. Set weather to Heavy Storms or whatever the canned one that goes by a similar name.

4. Using Inspector, set your AA to at least 8xS, 16x AF. Your call on internal frame limiter set at 30 or leave it off--it won't matter much on the lowest of reported frame rates, though the high end will be as high as you can go. Use Full Screen.

4. If you have FTX PNW, go to KSEA RWY 34R at Dawn in the PMDG NGX.

 

Report your frame rate in the VC ready for takeoff, engines running. Yes, of course this is a set of conditions not commonly used for obvious reasons, but it serves to illustrate it's more than add ons that determine how a machine processes what's moving thru it. Standing by to be amazed ...

Lol common dude, what else shall I do? Try running crysis 3 in the backgeound lol.

 

I get your point tho. If you are using fsx with those settings......maybe in 5 years you will have a processor that can handle it?

Good Lord I'm glad I read your comment carefully! I think I was the person who helped others here appreciate the value of unlimited + an external limiter:

 

 

 

 

Since then which was a while back I've always believed the best approach was UNLIMITED internally and limiting frames externally. What I hadn't tried for many years was just eliminating the frame limiter, external or internal. I tried Vsync off and wow, same same: frames up in the 80's while in the air--as high as 160 over areas w/ not much happening while at altitude, and while at KSAN last even trying this out in the T7 I'm seeing 52 at the gate and down to 34 while taxiing, then it did drop down to 28-29 while TO, but right back up to over 30 again. The interesting part is: very smooth, no stutters, no tearing!

 

 

 

Yep, I think it's all too easy to get bogged down in conventional wisdom, and refrain from periodically testing such wisdom. Hardware comes on in leaps and bounds, the way things are ordinarily done, should be tested on a regular basis in my view.

 

I fist noticed that I could run at high frame rate, and no stutters, not limited in the sim, and not limited externally, when I built my i7 920 rig. To be honest, at that time, I raised an eyebrow, regarded as interesting, but then without testing thoroughly locked frame rate at 60 as a compromise. Then, when I built my 3770K rig it was even more apparent.

 

So when testing my new GTX 770 the other day, I decided to do so at unlimited, to determine just how much of a frame rate improvement the GTX 770 was providing.. The results were phenomenal, immediately I noticed the huge frame rate increase [30%] when set to unlimited frames. I then set about extensive testing to determine if any stutters were present... there were none.

 

 

 

 

I did get the vertical spikes when panning--not many

 

 

It may be related to VSync as you say, but consider this Noel...

 

Are you using BP=0? Or indeed a reject threshold?

 

I bet if you reduce your AA a tad, namely SGSS, it may get rid of the spikes. I found when testing my 770, that 4XSGSS was the culprit. I can run 2XSGSS with 8XS Combined with no spikes and even SGSS with 8XSQ no spikes.

 

If you are just using 2XSGSS, then eliminate it completely and use something like 8XSQ Combined.

 

And/or...reduce Autogen one notch.

 

Either of the above may work.

 

What I noticed with my new GTX 770 with 4 GB of memory, is that it can handle 2XSGSS WITH the high frame rate as a result of running at unlimited.

 

Prior to that, with my old 1 GB 580 GTX and FSX at unlimited frames, spikes appeared. Unlimited frames, plus high AA settings were pumping way too much data to my old 580 GTX.

 

 

 

Anyway, the plot thickens. I wonder how many folks here have NOT tried this combination w/ modern hardware.

 

 

 

Most I would say. I hope they see these posts and experiment. The prospect of a 30% increase in frame rate, and no stutters would be flight sim heaven for most I would have thought.

 

The caveat of course, is that I get superior performance than most, simply because I'm conservative with my FSX sliders, and don't own highly detailed, super demanding add-on scenery and airports. GEX, UTX, REX I do won.

 

 

The prospect of a 30% increase in frame rate, and no stutters would be flight sim heaven for most I would have thought.

What I haven't determined yet is how much frame rates improve on the low end.  I can say absolutely smooth is no problem, texture loading no problem, but not sure how much the lowest rate increases when in the most complex situations.  I was flying into KJFK and had dips into the low 20's and as I recall that was about what I saw w/ UFL=0 and external limiter at 30.   However, seeing a higher high end definitely bodes well for GSYNC.  What I think is also the case is intuitively it's hard to justify putting a choke on something you're trying to get the most out of.  That smoothness doesn't suffer w/o an external limiter *should* make this configuration the new default for modern hardware.

 

 

Are you using BP=0? Or indeed a reject threshold?
 
I bet if you reduce your AA a tad, namely SGSS, it may get rid of the spikes. I found when testing my 770, that 4XSGSS was the culprit. I can run 2XSGSS with 8XS Combined with no spikes and even SGSS with 8XSQ no spikes.

 

Yes I use BP=0, but I don't know about 'reject threshold'.

 

I tried SGSS and really did not like it!  SGSS is an AA transparency setting yes?   Everything looks too soft--no crisp.  I use SuperCVAA_64x_12 as an AA mode something like that and find the best IQ of all I've tried. 

Well anyway, if you knock back whatever AA you are using, or autogen, or both, whatever works, I'd bet it gets rid of the spikes.

 

Try just autogen if you like.

Well anyway, if you knock back whatever AA you are using, or autogen, or both, whatever works, I'd bet it gets rid of the spikes.

 

Try just autogen if you like.

Martin I tried 'Adaptive' tearing control I think it is and I have yet to see a spike and boy is it ultra smooth w/ vsync enabled!  I'm doing Geneva>>Hamburg in the T7 and geez 53 frames taxiing for TO w/ 3D lights ablazing at dawn!  The final tweak for maximum performance for me was disabling High Res 3D VC.  I truthfully can hardly tell the difference and yet the perf bump in frames is substantial on top of the other perf bumps from NOT using any limiter outside of standard vsync.  Martin--thanks again man something to behold and I am going to post this for others to try.  I have to stand corrected as I've responded ignorantly to a few folks who reported these kinds of frame rates assuming they were falsifying findings.   My bad!

 

 

 The final tweak for maximum performance for me was disabling High Res 3D VC.  I truthfully can hardly tell the difference and yet the perf bump in frames is substantial on top of the other perf bumps from NOT using any limiter outside of standard vsync.

 

Red herring ;o(.  So hard to tell for sure who's doing what to who.  Hi Res VC I think is good only for about 1-2% change.  I think it was the fact I changed the setting within game and that caused LOD to go from 5.5 to 4.5 and the two of them together was substantial.  Anyway, it's all good.  I think as I say leaving the 30 frame restricter out of the mix means if GSYNC adds a level of fluidity heretofore not seen it will be pretty easy to configure so that you are always staying at 30 or higher where apparently GSYNC does its thing.

Martin I tried 'Adaptive' tearing control I think it is and I have yet to see a spike and boy is it ultra smooth w/ vsync enabled!  I'm doing Geneva>>Hamburg in the T7 and geez 53 frames taxiing for TO w/ 3D lights ablazing at dawn!  The final tweak for maximum performance for me was disabling High Res 3D VC.  I truthfully can hardly tell the difference and yet the perf bump in frames is substantial on top of the other perf bumps from NOT using any limiter outside of standard vsync.  Martin--thanks again man something to behold and I am going to post this for others to try.  I have to stand corrected as I've responded ignorantly to a few folks who reported these kinds of frame rates assuming they were falsifying findings.   My bad!

 

"Adaptive tearing control" you say. Not tried that.

 

Really glad someone else is getting the same high frames as me.

 

Seems my "don't trust conventional wisdom until you've tested it yourself" philosophy is a valid one.

Guru3D looks at GSync:

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_g_sync_review_guide,1.html

 

 

Yes, Gsync in indeed the future. Time to start saving up for a new monitor. Lots of different new models with different panels (incl. IPS) will hit the shelves early 2014.

 

A few quotes from the article:

 

1. "games must be run in full-screen mode to use G-SYNC"

 

LM really need to bring back the true full screen option! FSX and FS9 should be good to go.

 

2. "G-SYNC technology is designed to work with all OpenGL and DirectX games on Windows 7 and 8.1."

 

Looks like X-Plane will be OK as well.

 

3. "prefereably you want to be above 40 FPS really, as at that framerate things start to look incredibly good."

 

This seems to be the sweetspot so maybe time to find your slider settings that achieves this.

 

4. "Ooh ooh ooh, and try gaming with a high mouse with a high polling rate, it is incredibly precise as input lag is a thing of the past as well."

 

This means that TrackIR will most likely also be lag free! Amazing...