First of all, he is not a prophet. He did a very simple performance test, with VISUALLY same settings. If level of detail is the same when you compare the two, then performance test is valid. I don't care is autogen batch job if different, or autogen doesn't pop up. With VISUALLY the same settings he got 50% lower FPS in P3D 2.0. And he has pretty good machine.

 

That is why he did a very simple test, to avoid any conflicts between the two platforms.

Errrm.....no he didn't.

 

Word Not Allowed tested FSX.....with addons that were written/coded for FSX installed........against P3D v2.......with addons that were written/coded for FSX installed.

 

Thats not a simple test, nor is it in anyway "scientific".

 

Hell, even one of the addons he tested with has since been found to have some issues/bugs with P3D v2 that need to be investigated and patched (that addon being FTX Global) and who knows how that addon, and its bugs/issues, may have warped, or unduly influenced his results.

 

Just because a product has a P3D v2 ready installer does not mean that its going to work flawlessly in P3D v2 and my feeling is that is what is becoming more and more apparent. People have installed P3D v2, flown around for a couple of hours, and then piled their FSX addons in and are now wondering why it doesn't seem to work so well.

 

As I posted on his blog, the ONLY true test between the sims, at this early stage, is the simplest test of them all - an absolutely vanilla FSX versus an absolutely vanilla P3D v2 - no addons whatsoever.

 

Its only from setting up that specific test as a base that you, me, Word Not Allowed, or anyone for that matter, could categorically state that one sim outperforms the other.

 

I'm not criticising him, personally I'm glad that people like him are around that are prepared to make comparisons and test things......it can benefit us all in the longer run but all I'm saying is that his testing method is flawed from the outset, and therefore his results are highly likely flawed.

 

Regards

 

Steve

Umm - did you read my post? I don't fly without it.

 

 

I didn't see mention of TrackIR.   Oh well if you are happy with 20 FPS with TrackIR, good for you!

Ok, I will buy it, and will test in a couple of days. Refund policy changed my mind. But I'm not optimistic about performance at all, simply because I don't have a card good enough for it (1GB gtx 560 OC).

 

BTW it's not about 25 or 30 frames, it is about huge stutters, very anoying. In FSX DX10, 25fps is smooth, I don't have a problem with that.

The video card will limit you. Your processor speed is a tad low but acceptable. If you remember that the same NAME setting in FSX is not the same in P3D. If you set something to DENSE in FSX and do the same in P3D it will be more like setting it to VERY DENSE in FSX. SO adjust your sliders to a reasonable setting and you should be able to get a smooth sim.

 

Vic

Dave - I have always set my sim up for the smoothest operation possible. If your sim is smooth, it makes NO difference whether it's set at 100fps or 20fps. Smooth is smooth - it's a measure of fluidity not speed.

 

I wonder if the difference with TIR on my system might be an ATI/Nvidia thing.

 

IAC, no matter what the FPS, TIR and the sim are smooth and THAT'S what I like.

 

Vic

Hey Dave. what I think would be a logical and a much appreciated gesture,  would be if you were to post your P3D slider settings (screenies would be best), your full PC specs and any cfg tweaks that you may have made. I think there are of guys who are giving up on P3D and if they were to have some kind of yardstick then it might help :wink:

 

 

I posted some comparisons here http://forum.avsim.net/index.php?/topic/428023-Comparisons-one-week-on%2E%2E%2E/page__view__findpost__p__2869907 exactly for the reasons you mentioned. It's only when you look back, that you realise just how far we've come.

 

I'm simply loving every bit of it. I'm sure that most of us know FSX like the back of our hand. It's an old friend. In fact, its a work of genius. P3D is not new, it has inherited the genes of greatness!

 

 

I posted all of my settings but the post hasn't seen much interest. :smile:

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/428150-q-flyers-p3d-20-settings-for-ati/

 

 I have no problem with that, as the fact is, one person's settings are all but irrelevent to most other users.     But never mind, I quite enjoyed doing all the screenies for the post!

 

 

I'm not optimistic about performance at all, simply because I don't have a card good enough for it (1GB gtx 560 OC).

I would agree.  That card will not yield good results for you in comparison to FSX.  I would imagine your cpu is doing most of the work in FSX, while your video card is taking a nap from time to time.  With P3D, that video card is going to get all kinds of stressed out.  In either case, it will be interesting to learn what your findings are.

And on the bright side...... maybe all you will need to have P3D run smoothly for you is a new video card that will be up to the task.  Much better than a full system upgrade in my opinion.  Best of luck.

Yes, I'm aware of my graphic card limit in P3D 2.0.

As I said my friend has similiar card (560 ti), and he tested vanilla P3D. Lots of stutters, 25-30 fps with medium settings. If that performance was fluid 25/30 frames - different story. Stutters are killing everything.

 

My card is doing good job in FSX DX10, around 70-80% of GPU Load, so no napping.

I have just flown what would definitely be up there in my Top 5 all time flights in the last 15 years...... :cool:

....and 33.9 FPS (locked at 34).

 

It just doesn't get any better than this.

Well how cool is that!

 

You got pretty much the same rig I do except that I ordered a new 7700 GTX 770 whatever... bottom line is I think I'm trying to get too much done at once... I copied over my ALL my 1.4 scenery files about ~120 GB ....I think I'm causing more problems than I avoided by copying.... going to try to clean install after having listened to you...

 

... take care and enjoy your brandy new sim AND your kids ...kids and family first ...you won't have this time with them again...

 

Mine are outta the house....and I think of the wasted hours away from them...just sayin...

 

And congrats on your new career track...pretty parallel to mine....once a NYC network consultant, now school bus driver in the Stix o' Kaintuky.

 

...lovin the Stix...as long as it has high speed internet...

 

Chas

I contacted my friend few minutes ago, and he changed his impression from awful to stunned. :lol: He was impatient enough to draw conclusions after FIRST P3D 2.0 start. LM said at the app start that first run is specific, you can see stutters, bad performance, etc (I read that somewhere). He probably didn't read that. He ran P3D again today, and he got the smoothest experience ever. He said some other very positive things, like: cranked autogen with shadows is not that hard on fps, road traffic at 20% doesn't have fps hit at all. Without shadows around 40fps, with around 30-35. Nice. Volumetric fog have significant hit on performance, but it is so amazing that disabling it can be a blasphemy. I saw screenshots, volumetric fog is truly amazing. Also he stated that at 25-30 fps sim is smooth like a butter, on 560ti card! Now I can look forward purchasing it, maybe even now, and leave it during the night to download.

But, one huge but (only with one "t"), I must take this with one huge grain of salt, because this is the performance of VANILLA P3D. FTXG + AI TRAFFIC + PMDG 737 and + even payware airport = please Santa, bring me two gtx 770 cards for SLI, and best CPU on planet with best motherboard for overclock. :lol:

Man I really don't understand people having issues with P3D performance. I think one should do a little investigative work on their own before making conclusions based on some blogger.

 

I run this hot beast on a laptop computer with an i7 and 650m GeForce card. I get 20-40fps. If you can't enjoy those frames with full autogen and clouds, then nothing will satisfy you.

I've done my share of investigating/tweaking V2.0. None of it was successful. I read Kostas review and I do agree with what he said about autogen. I followed his guide to the T for FSX and it runs as smooth as silk.

I think over 80% of the P3D woes people are reporting are attributed to a combination of hardware vs settings.

The hardware they run isn't supporting the settings they're choosing. One of the common complaints I see is "it's supposed to be better then FSX, why am I lagging with high settings."

 

It's true, it isn't FSX, but that doesn't mean you can crank everything 100% and expect to live through it.

People think FSX = P3D in the levels of settings and what they do (low, med, high) and it's more like FSX low = P3D medium as a rough example.

You can get better performance and visuals running lower settings in P3D then you would have run in FSX. Just have to be mindful of the hardware you have and what it can actually support.

 

I run a GTX 660ti 2GB and I can't really run any shadows besides cockpit and the aircraft on the terrain before I start to see noticeable drops in frames.

I would rather have smooth frames and stick with cockpit shadows then have every object on the ground casting a shadow I can't see when I'm above 5,000ft anyway on my high altitude commercial flights.

 

But see...that's me. I know my hardware, I know it's limitations with P3D, and i set my settings accordingly based on how I fly.

I rarely stay below 10,000ft so I match my settings for an enjoyable experience.

Joe Smith running every shadow he can click on with even a 700 series NVidia card is going to have a bad time.

 

P3D WILL break any machine if the settings are high enough. You just have to find the sweet spot according to your flying style.

Where FSX was looking like total garbage until you pumped up everything to max sliders, even low to medium on some settings in P3D looks great.

Scripted4u, on 03 Dec 2013 - 4:59 PM, said:

 

Man I really don't understand people having issues with P3D performance. I think one should do a little investigative work on their own before making conclusions based on some blogger.

 

I run this hot beast on a laptop computer with an i7 and 650m GeForce card. I get 20-40fps. If you can't enjoy those frames with full autogen and clouds, then nothing will satisfy you.

 

 

I've done my share of investigating/tweaking V2.0. None of it was successful. I read Kostas review and I do agree with what he said about autogen. I followed his guide to the T for FSX and it runs as smooth as silk.

 

 

Really?!? He runs P3D from a laptop and has good performance...yeah ok. You are wasting our time with that nonsense. Maybe with sliders jammed to the left, in which case you are really wasting our time. 

 

Anyways, I've been testing P3D for the last few days, and like many I presume, sitting on the fence, hoping LM has some solutions in v2.1.

 

Clearly disabling shadows altogether provides unparalleled smoothness, but who wants that. I get satisfactory performance with shadows set at medium and disabling veggie shadows in particular, while maintaining the other options set to cast and receive seems ok. Shadow rendering generally needs a lot of work. Even at ultra settings, which I don't recommend, you can clearly see every shade gradient, particularly in terrain shadows. There is no smoothing whatsoever.  Cockpit shadows need proper AA to smooth out those jaggies.

 

HDR is a fps killer, looks kinda meh, so I have disabled it for now. It was dropping my frames by about 10-20 at times, then other times had no effect on performance. Still unsure about that one.

 

I am not too excited with the water textures to by quite honest. I'm not sure what many were excited about.  Reflections set to Ultra with all boxes checked, the water looks flat and not much wave animation. Cloud reflections are too pronounced and shoreline reflections flicker. I have kept that set to Ultra with all buttons checked with minimal drop in performance. 

 

AA is nowhere near FSX quality at this point. Its quite bad actually. I have attempted 8xS AA in NI set to Enhance Application and 4xSGSS and it does seem to smooth out and eliminate most flickering going on in cockpit guages, but it is far from perfect. In game I have 4xMSAA set with FXAA unchecked.

 

I had three CTD's yesterday but have only reproduced those by running texture resolution and LOD higher than default.

 

Running trackIR with frame limiter set to Unlimited induces lag and some stutter while panning. For some reason limiting to 45 seems to be my sweet spot.

 

Overall despite the many shortcomings during P3Dv2 infancy, I love the new autogen rendering system. Also, if I closely match my FSX settings in P3D, my P3D experience is a much smoother one, despite lower frame rates.

 

I have faith that LM and Nvidia will work together so we can get some external overrides working. That may improve our performance down the road.

Yes, I'm aware of my graphic card limit in P3D 2.0.

As I said my friend has similiar card (560 ti), and he tested vanilla P3D. Lots of stutters, 25-30 fps with medium settings. If that performance was fluid 25/30 frames - different story. Stutters are killing everything.

 

My card is doing good job in FSX DX10, around 70-80% of GPU Load, so no napping.

Don't make me laugh. Like I said above, I run a 650m which is half the performance of your card and I get fluid 25fps or higher. Of course I have a i7 3630qm processor but it ain't the best.

 

Stutters are a different story. I have to use GeForce 307.64 drivers to avoid stutters.... But again, that's my computer, not yours.

 

 

 

I just uploaded a video on youtube at 1920x1080 using full autogen. I can't post links, but do a youtube search for "prepar3d switzerland photoscenery" . Try not to drool.

Hmmm, your definition of fluid is questionable because I see stutters all over the place in that video, but that could just be FRAPS recording.

 

I don't doubt that you can run P3D adequately on your laptop. But don't expect to go far with all the new bells and whistles. Also that area is not that heavy with autogen, so go hog wild with that setting, plus the default Maule is as light of an airplane as you could possibly fly, and spot view is kinda meaningless.

Autogen and photoscenery?

 

Hmmm, your definition of fluid is questionable because I see stutters all over the place in that video, but that could just be FRAPS recording.

 

I don't doubt that you can run P3D adequately on your laptop. But don't expect to go far with all the new bells and whistles. Also that area is not that heavy with autogen, so go hog wild with that setting, plus the default Maule is as light of an airplane as you could possibly fly, and spot view is kinda meaningless.

Well see, you've completely missed the point. Plus, apparently you didn't read the description in the video. If that was FSX, it would be a slideshow. I have a laptop. Here, let me say that again... I have a laptop.

 

What you see in that video is 1920x1080 running on a laptop. Any stuttering you see is from FRAPS. I'm happy to report that running that cockpit view is just as smooth with equal framerates.

 

I'm not competing with a desktop i7 with the latest and greatest video card. The point of the video is to show how well it runs... on a freaking laptop.

 

FSX would puke autogen out of the fan exits if it had to do that...on a laptop.