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J van E

Well, at least one dev is waking up... (or is it retreating...?)

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JV from Orbx posted this on the Orbx forum in reply to some posts about the lack of news about the new P3D 2.0 installers:

 

 

 

We have spent quite a lot of effort already testing and porting a lot of our freeware airports to P3D2 only to find that all is not rosy on the other side. We may have to "fork" our installers for P3D2 airports because they will require a whole new unique Orbxlibs due to the myriad of changes in P3D2.

 

Well, at last... at least one dev is discovering you can't simply change the path in the installer tp P3D 2.0 and expect the addon to be compatible. There clearly is more to it!!! What we all said all along!

 

However, this really makes me wonder what they (and other devs) have been doing the last few months. Or maybe I should say why LM apparently didn't communicate very well with the 3PD's. JV has been posting for months that they were into P3D 2.0 and hinted at things being great and dandy. And when the (short) beta test was being held, they were into it all again and P3D 2.0 was awesome and great and we would be in for a surprise. (He also posted btw how the new shadows hardly had an impact on fps... yeah, right). And now, a few weeks after the release of P3D 2.0 they FINALLY say things are a bit different in P3D 2.0 than they expected or were used too...

 

HELLOOOOOOOO!!!

 

Another very nice thing that JV said:

 

 

 

Since P3D2 represents only a small percentage of our overall customer base you have to accept the fact our business simply cannot be put on hold while we recompile and enhance our installers for the new emerging platform.

 

So... they have promoted P3D 2.0 to pieces, telling us all it is the future, but when push comes to shove, well, they don't really have the time to make it all happen and we should be patient... (I am exaggerating a bit here: I of course understand they need time to change all their addons but to me this remark does feel like a retreat from previous statements. P3D 2.0 was to be the biggest thing since sliced bread but now it suddenly is a small sim for a few guys... Again, he doesn't say that but it sure feels like it.)

 

It really amazes me that Orbx seems to be SURPRISED by this... Really! Again, it makes you wonder what they and other devs have been doing the last few months. Or was LM communications with all 3PD's far below par...? Anyway, it will clearly take a lot more time to make various addon TRULY P3D 2.0 compatible. And it confirms that various addons that were already so called compatible really aren't. I mean, if those addon airports need a new Orbxlibs, so does FTX Global!

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Welcome to the real world!

 

Thank you! :P

 

In the meantime I am reinstalling P3D 2.0. I tested something this afternoon which required me to uninstall FTGX and I now decided to completely remove everything and reinstall ONLY P3D 2.0 and leave it at that. I will have some fun with the A36 and the Acclaim above default scenery (not everything is crap: there are a few nice places out there) and I won't touch any addon anymore until 1. version 2.1 of P3D has been released and 2. the dev announced their addon is 100% completely P3D 2.0 compatible and 3. everyone here acknowledges that. ^_^

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That whole thing was pointed out/rumored in the perelease. Addons are not going to be completely compatible just by changing an installer. I questioned this and was burned at the cross. These FSX/DX9 addons, IMO, are also causing performance issues The thing that confuses me, wasn't ORBX one of them developer beta testers? Umm. Its probably good news more than anything. Now they'll get to work developing REAL V2 addons optimized for it. Cheap and free? probably not.

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I've always taken everything that Orbx/FTX says with a grain of salt..  I know you spent a lot of money on their product and they made a lot of claims about how they're full speed ahead with P3Dv2 but if you're going to ride out v2.. You have to let Orbx go and maybe take them out on a date 6 months from now..  From what I've seen, I'm not entirely sure their two "v2 ready" products are even really v2 ready. 

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Jeroen,

 

I can't really argue with any of your points, I found myself nodding my head while reading.

 

I'm not really into the Orbx thing like many others are, but I do have the distinct impression, and I'm certain it is from reading something from them directly, that left me feeling like they were sort of taking the lead with the P3Dv2 transition, and that they were on the ball and ready to go.

 

Now maybe I was reading too much between the lines, as we all have a tendency to do at times., I don't know. The massive scope of FTXG is what kept it far away from my install though. There is no way I was trying that until it had been fully vetted.

 

Not really surprising though, as you said. 

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And to the "or is it retreating" question in the topic

 

I believe the term you're looking for is back peddling. And he's not doing a very good job of it.  I wouldn't be surprised if these forked products also have a new price tag attached to them also.. Again.. Anything that comes out of their mouth, take with a grain of salt.. This isn't the first, and probably not the last that they flip flopped. 

 

After re-purchasing v2 last night and firing it up again.. I'm seriously not missing Orbx.. The default stuff is fine... 

 

Where is this post BTW? I couldn't find it..

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I find this a little worrying...and it means one of two (or maybe both) things:

 

1 - JV probably should not be allowed near his own forums......Jeroen is correct as JV intimated that they were right up at the front with P3D v2 and they have "sold" P3D v2 unashamedly for months now as being the next best thing....a myriad of promo screenshots with Global+Vector+Landclass+P3D v2 etc etc, comparison shots etc etc........now there is more than a hint of backtrack (no doubt it will eventually arrive with his usual "edginess"!!!)

 

However, if the issues that P3D v2 are presenting have come as a complete shock to them (& other devs) then.....

 

2 - What on earth was the beta about then as LM seem to have made fundamental changes to the release version and may now come across as having led the beta testing devs up the garden path - a little/a lot/completely - who knows.

 

I remain optimistic, but the optimism is tempered somewhat right now.

 

Regards

 

Steve

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but I do have the distinct impression, and I'm certain it is from reading something from them directly, that left me feeling like they were sort of taking the lead with the P3Dv2 transition, and that they were on the ball and ready to go.

Now maybe I was reading too much between the lines

 

You certainly weren't reading between the lines. EDIT As Steve just confirmed. ^_^

 

 

 


Where is this post BTW? I couldn't find it..

 

http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/68642-ftx-global-v12-patch-coming-list-of-things-being-fixed/page-3#entry640465

 

 

 


After re-purchasing v2 last night and firing it up again.. I'm seriously not missing Orbx.. The default stuff is fine...

 

Yeah!!! Welcome back! ^_^ Yes, well, as I said, there are some default parts which look great but I do have to change my defaul locations because some of them really suck due to bad landclass. But yes, there is enough in P3D 2.0 default to keep me entertai.... er... busy.

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Hey Jeroen have you ported over that fabulous Norway freeware stuff into P3Dv2?  Is it compatible? 

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2 - What on earth was the beta about then as LM seem to have made fundamental changes to the release version and may now come across as having led the beta testing devs up the garden path - a little/a lot/completely - who knows.

 

Well, that was why I didn't mention Orbx in the topic title. Orbx simply is one example (though a very vocal one). And that's why I said "Or maybe I should say why LM apparently didn't communicate very well with the 3PD's." It's clear by now that something somewhere didn't work out as planned or expected.

 

I am still hopeful and optimistic though. It will just take a bit longer to get where we want to be. Now I know the state of affairs, I don't mind using P3D default: I mainly had problems with various things (statements, bugs, etc.) because I was told they would work and they didn't as I expected. Now I know what's up, I will have fun flying the A36 and Mooney Acclaim in the US.

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Wow and two people thanked him for that post.. Typical. . JV could write a post that they're introducing a 20% Retroactive Orbx Tax to all their products and it would be 3 pages of people thanking him. 

 

Anyway.. 

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Orbx.....nuff said.

 

I remember a guy here (just can't remember his name) who was saying the same thing about breaking add on compatibility because of DX11 and other stuff wayyyyyy before release of V2.0, he was also implying that he would be very surprised if major compatibility patch were not offered for a price or if you would have to buy brand new add on as the one already out would be to much trouble to patch for free...time will tell I guess...I have his name on the tip of my tongue, can you read it..  :P

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Hey Jeroen have you ported over that fabulous Norway freeware stuff into P3Dv2?  Is it compatible? 

 

Well, not in my current install (which is around 1 hour old now ^_^ ). I did use the freeware up to now though, together with FTXG, and with 'save settings' things looked okay and seemed to work fine, but as I said, I decided to stay away from addons (payware but also freeware) until I am 100% certain they are really 100% compatible. But so far I didn't have any odd things happening that I could relate to that Norwegian freeware so you might want to give it a try. It's easily removed if things don't work out. ;)

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 I will have fun flying the A36 and Mooney Acclaim in the US.

 

If you own Carenado products give them a try..  Carenado is notorious for sticking 100% with the FSX SDK so the likelyhood of his planes being a problem in Prepar3D v2 are slim.. 

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JV from Orbx posted this on the Orbx forum in reply to some posts about the lack of news about the new P3D 2.0 installers:

 

 

 

 

Well, at last... at least one dev is discovering you can't simply change the path in the installer tp P3D 2.0 and expect the addon to be compatible. There clearly is more to it!!! What we all said all along!

 

However, this really makes me wonder what they (and other devs) have been doing the last few months. Or maybe I should say why LM apparently didn't communicate very well with the 3PD's. JV has been posting for months that they were into P3D 2.0 and hinted at things being great and dandy. And when the (short) beta test was being held, they were into it all again and P3D 2.0 was awesome and great and we would be in for a surprise. (He also posted btw how the new shadows hardly had an impact on fps... yeah, right). And now, a few weeks after the release of P3D 2.0 they FINALLY say things are a bit different in P3D 2.0 than they expected or were used too...

 

HELLOOOOOOOO!!!

 

Another very nice thing that JV said:

 

 

 

 

So... they have promoted P3D 2.0 to pieces, telling us all it is the future, but when push comes to shove, well, they don't really have the time to make it all happen and we should be patient... (I am exaggerating a bit here: I of course understand they need time to change all their addons but to me this remark does feel like a retreat from previous statements. P3D 2.0 was to be the biggest thing since sliced bread but now it suddenly is a small sim for a few guys... Again, he doesn't say that but it sure feels like it.)

 

It really amazes me that Orbx seems to be SURPRISED by this... Really! Again, it makes you wonder what they and other devs have been doing the last few months. Or was LM communications with all 3PD's far below par...? Anyway, it will clearly take a lot more time to make various addon TRULY P3D 2.0 compatible. And it confirms that various addons that were already so called compatible really aren't. I mean, if those addon airports need a new Orbxlibs, so does FTX Global!

 

Good point. Reminds me of the progressive movement in my country. No logic, just emotion.

 

Bob

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C'mon everybody patience is a virtue!  And no I am not one of those FTX supporters that thanked JV !   I will remain patiently optimistic that's all.....

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If you own Carenado products give them a try.. Carenado is notorious for sticking 100% with the FSX SDK so the likelyhood of his planes being a problem in Prepar3D v2 are slim..

 

Yes, I own three of them, which aren't directly suited for P3D according to their site, and I also read elsewhere they should work fine nonetheless, but I'm done experimenting for now, really... ^_^ I do however also think that companies who found ways to work around the FSX-system, like Orbx, will have more problems to get their products completely P3D 2.0 compatible. However, this isn't a reason for me to frown upon them because at the time I of course was very happy for all the innovations!!!

 

 

 


Orbx.....nuff said.

 

Well, I didn't start this topic to give everyone (yet) a(nother) opportunity to start bashing Orbx. ^_^ Orbx is the first dev I know that (finally) acknowledges things are different with P3D. So that's a good thing. The main point of my post was this: "However, this really makes me wonder what they (and other devs) have been doing the last few months. Or maybe I should say why LM apparently didn't communicate very well with the 3PD's." Obviously the additional information about 'back peddling', which is indeed a better word for it, sort of invited everyone to start making remarks about Orbx :rolleyes: but again, that was not my intent. There are more devs who took things too lightly.

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Hey Jeroen have you ported over that fabulous Norway freeware stuff into P3Dv2?  Is it compatible? 

 

I don't have P3D2 installed at the moment (awaiting the first update as Black Screen and other niggles just got too frustrating on a daily basis), but when I did, I had the most of the NORWAY! stuff installed (the AoN airports, the mesh, the NSX lc and vector, etc, etc, everything apart from some of the individual upgraded airports).

 

It functioned perfctly but FPS were definitely lower than in FSX;   even with P3D2 on very modest settings (no shadows, autogen sparse etc) to make it more comparable with FSX settings.   I had the same thing with the Majestic Q400;  amazing addon for frame rates in FSX but in P3D it was one of the heaviest.

 

Now here's something bizarre;   Coolsky DC-9; heavy(ish) frame rate demand in FSX right?......... light as you like in P3D2.... it runs like a default aircraft in P3D2 for me!

 

So the Norway stuff certainly installs and you can see it;  but like most FSX addons, all is not quite well when you're running it in P3D2.

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I have a theory, but it's just that.. What "devs have been doing"..  

 

Remember.. A theory..  FSX devs have had it easy for years.. They had open reign at a static target.. In comes LM and that stastic target is now growing new limbs and is no longer a static target..  Remember day one of release in this forum and the big push back there was from the FSX side of things (reminiscent of MS Flights push back)?  My theory is some 3PD tried getting blood from a stone..  ie: Things changed and they wanted them to stay the same..  A referee finally came in and said "No"...  

 

Again... Just a theory as I sit here sipping on my coffee and cursing at the TV because there is nothing to watch...  :lol:

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I seemed to recall LM stating that all FSX addons that were built to the FSX SDK should work in P3DV2. I also remember all the discussions about ORBX stuff not following the FSX SDK and breaking other developer's addons. I'm not surprised at all that ORBX is having problems porting over their FSX stuff. I just hope that ORBX follows the P3DV2 SDK and includes uninstallers when they release their official P3DV2 versions.

 

Ted 

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I had the same thing with the Majestic Q400; amazing addon for frame rates in FSX but in P3D it was one of the heaviest.

 

Now here's something bizarre; Coolsky DC-9; heavy(ish) frame rate demand in FSX right?......... light as you like in P3D2.... it runs like a default aircraft in P3D2 for me!

I hope the Q400 will be back to it's super light fps when we have a true installer for it.

Amazing news about the DC-9. IT was really bad, I deleted it.

 

About Orbx, come on guys you know there forums are for happy clapper's.

JV is the CEO and likes to be judged on sales nothing else, he has said many times he is not running a dating site.

I just don't understand why someone who can run a company so well can not see that Orbx needs someone on the "front desk" and he is not the man for the job nor are some of the mod's.

Orbx forums Orbx rules, smile, clap, be happy or be very carful when you post.

 

Having said all that I think Global is an amazing product for flying into and out of huge city.

 

@J

You was far to fast in jumping ship to P3D. Reinstall FSX, Global and the A2A 172 and you will fall over at how many fps you get. You fault was you were just to keen. Dave was but I see he is back to fsx now.

You don't need to be flying P3D to enjoy flight sim'ing.

Dave you have a insane amount of posts for 8 months, am reporting you for spam :lol:

Still think in a years time we will all be flying in P3D.

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You was far to fast in jumping ship to P3D. Reinstall FSX, Global and the A2A 172 and you will fall over at how many fps you get. You fault was you were just to keen.

 

Probably true. ^_^ But that's me LOL I always dive into something at full throttle. But after being annoyed for years by popping up autogen, I just can't let go of P3D 2.0 right now... ^_^ It's my choice to stick with P3D 2.0 and so it's also my choice to deal with bugs and addons not working. Then again... it's always nice having something to moan about... if everything would simply work, this hobby would become boring very quickly!  B) :P

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This is all setting up as the same as FS9 to FSX. Similarities but still quite different. Isn't it a little delusional to think that products working in FSX would suddenly and magically work in V2? I see it as good news. This means a whole lot was done that change the internal dynamics of the simulator. Think about it. Irregardless of adhering to the SDK, lots of bugs and old code were squashed. A lot of optimization done to the very foundations. Things that previous FSX products were built around and depend on. Now suddenly they r not there. So wild things happen. 1.4 behaved mostly the same because it was relatively minor changes. DX9 to DX9. No big deal. Now we have DX9 to DX11. Those r some radically different method being employed. It might be recognized but certainly not optimized nor is it going to be bug free.

 

All this sounds frustrating but I'm just thankful imagine took the FSX bull by the horns and is now making it to be a more graceful eagle like Sim. It will take some time, but LM is willing to bend over backwards to help and accommodate 3PDs (or so it seems and relative to MS). Umberto at FSDT is really excited for the changes and the possibilities because of all the bugs and limitations greatly reduced and I'm sure he mirrors many dev sentiments. Let the puppy grow. She will be fun.

 

Sent from my LG-D803 using Tapatalk

 

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