You've completely missed my point. I said nothing about unions in that post. And actually, unions have little if any power. There is nothing unions can do to prevent downsizing and off shoring to cut costs. The decline in the American standard of living, and soon yours as well, is caused by the expectation of the general population that whatever goods or service they consume has to be provided at ever cheaper prices.

We are on the other side of the world Kevin, a place where a union forced an airline to install a flight engineer's station into their fleet of B767s because they wanted to guarantee their Flight Engineer members their jobs. Another union forced an airline to have a minimum of 6 baggage handlers per 737 and 9 per 727 turnaround. Those guys used to take turns sleeping in the baggage compartment while the rest worked. And they were paid more than a Second Officer in those days. You will find some are paid more than a JS or DJ First Officer.

The same country were the unions wanted to force Qantas to give sub contractors and workers for small subsidiary regionals the same travel entitlements as full time Qantas employees, regardless of the cost to the airline, the list goes on.

 

All of these were set in place back when Qantas could afford it. Problem is, now that they cant afford it, they have to fight for it. And it wont be pretty.

 

Sent from my Mobile thing

And pilot unions here required an 'engineer' to occupy the jumpseat as well when the 737 first came on line. Like I said before, you're just a few years behind us there. Lol.

You've completely missed my point. I said nothing about unions in that post. And actually, unions have little if any power. There is nothing unions can do to prevent downsizing and off shoring to cut costs. The decline in the American standard of living, and soon yours as well, is caused by the expectation of the general population that whatever goods or service they consume has to be provided at ever cheaper prices.

 

I've yet to find someone expecting to pay ever higher prices for any good or service they consume?

 

I've yet to find someone expecting to pay ever higher prices for any good or service they consume?

 

Which is why it is inevitable that standards of living in developed countries like the US will continue a long term decline. Though if you look around, you will find manifestations of some attempts at changing this attitude. Labels or slogans such as 'Made in the USA' or 'Buy American' are weak attempts at social change to emphasize to people that there should be more aspects to a consumer purchase decision than just the price tag.

I haven't seen this decline in living standards......even Japan which suffered deflation for 6 years, they have one of the highest living standards in the world! Even their toilet seats are heated!!! Their food quality is still very high....so it is illogical to say living standards have decreased. [The cost of living has decreased except for those using green energy.......]

It's called change and its about competition, not declining living standards. Products have got cheaper in line with lower wages and costs. And services. It's called competition.........

You confuse technology with living standards. We can live in a world of heated toilet seats and robots that wipe our buttocks for a few people while the majority have to work longer or afford less.

 

And if products and services are cheaper in line with lower wages, as you say, then you're not actually improving your situation. The key to improving your living standards is to be able to afford more or better.

I agree with kevinau, its called social conditioning and in some cases NLP... and its EVERYWHERE in the modern world... Ill give you some examples...

 

Everyone has an iphone because the next door neighbour has one, people dont need an iphone any phone will do, but if everyone has one they must have one....  It starts off with notable figures, celebrities and then to general public, if you have what they have you might have a similarity with them, you relate to them....

 

5 years ago if you had a beard it wasnt cool, now it is because someone called it being a hipster.  "im a hipster" it gives you an identity, or something to identify with

 

If someone on a UK tv reality keeps saying a phrase over and over again for example "shut uuppp" or "ehhh hello" about 6 months later you have everyone copying those sayings as they think they can in someway relate to them...

 

Going back on track, we live in a capalist world, for example the airline I work for (short haul low cost) has just made 415 million profit, the ceo took home 6 million as a bonus, and they are still going on about  "cutting costs".... as they want to make as much as possible, some of the cost cutting is borderline nuts.

 

All the senior management seem to think they have discovered the "blue pill" for making so much money,hence justifying their wonderfull proformance,  When all that has happened is we have the biggest recession in the history of the planet, people can afford a cheap holiday to spain but they cant afford one to the Caribbean.... hence why ryanair and easyjet are making money, and virgin, thomson, tcx are losing it... 

Be interesting to see how this plays out; the Qantas customer base, and personnel, are strongly connected it seems through social media.

Last night I (and presumably the other 10 million Frequent Flyers) got a wheedling email from CEO Qantas Loyalty, Leslie Grant.

In part, it goes:

I have received many questions both directly and through social media and wanted to reach out to you personally as a valued member. These are tough but necessary measures to ensure a strong future for Qantas and our nearly 10 million Qantas Frequent Flyer members. Let me assure you, however, that these measures will not impact your Qantas Points balance or cause your Qantas Points to expire.

 

This sounds a little desperate to me! So I emailed in return (imagine if just 1% of the 10 million did):

Thanks Lesley,

By now you will have realised what Alan is about to do to Qantas.

I shan’t be troubling you any more, I have serious doubt about flying an airline whose workforce is disgruntled, on reliability and safety grounds.

Please remove me from your FF Programme, and remove me from your mailing list. 

 

Be interesting to see if Alan Joyce makes it to the end of the month...

"Mr Abbott called on Labor to help give the airline some “legislative help” by repealing the carbon tax."

 

http://www.perthnow.com.au/travel/travel-news/tony-abbott-against-debt-guarantee-for-qantas-after-5000-jobs-axed/story-fnjjv9zm-1226839057297

 

I think Alan Joyce is the only option anyway. Unless the Government really wants to slash and burn......

 

I doubt Alan is to blame. A few years ago he tried do something and the unions were adamant at stopping him.

 

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/what_qantas_needs_now_and_it_isnt_more_bloody_minded_unions/

"

 

What Qantas needs now, and it isn’t more bloody-minded unions

Andrew Bolt

FEBRUARY

27

2014

(8:11am)

Terry McCrann:

 

 

QANTAS needs both things it is asking the Government for — a debt guarantee and the freedom to copy Virgin Australia in seeking major foreign shareholders.

 

The results from Qantas today are also going to show with brutal clarity that even with that help, it will still face a fundamental struggle to survive…

 

Now, there’s an important qualification to government help. The debt guarantee should operate in a strictly limited way — just to bridge the gap to the repeal of the Qantas shareholder restrictions.

 

Once Qantas is able to get major foreign shareholders, as does Virgin, it would be completely inappropriate for that company to continue to be guaranteed by the taxpayer.

 

Of course, all that is in the hands of the uncertain Senate after June.

 

McCrann is right to challenge the critics of Qantas CEO Alan Joyce to come up with an alternative plan that did not involve falling market share, increasing losses and fewer jobs.

 

How stupid does that damaging 2011 industrial dispute look now? How many of the unionists today losing their jobs fought three years ago against the cost cutting the airline clearly needed?:

 

 

When independent arbitrator Fair Work Australia invoked national interest in terminating all industrial action between Qantas and striking aviation unions at 2 a.m. Monday, it brought an end all industrial action in a bitter dispute that has dragged on for 14 months…

 

Make no mistake: this was an industrial war that struck at the heart of nationalism, protectionism and old-school political divides…

 

The long-running labor dispute at the world’s second-oldest airline reached its boiling point during the Qantas Annual General Meeting on Friday, October 28.

 

Chief executive Alan Joyce ... accused the unions of “slowly crippling our business and trashing our brand."…

 

His restructuring plan to make Qantas more competitive in the international market received near unanimous support from shareholders… The plans were the catalyst for two unions—the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) and the Transport Workers Union (TWU)—to implement rolling strikes this year. A third union, the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA), made unauthorized, in-flight announcements to vent their concerns…

 

With the ongoing dispute already costing Qantas $70 million, Joyce threatened an employee lockout, and promised to ground the airline at a cost of $20 million a day by way of forcing the government’s hand in ordering arbitration.

 

This is exactly what happened.

 

"

 

 

Alan Joyce had that shutdown in Oct 2011, remember?

 

Well he said QANTAS should focus on Virgin and the unions were giving Virgin a free kick. How right he was.

 

http://www.news.com.au/finance/crunch-time-qantas-ceo-faces-shareholders-and-unions-at-agm/story-e6frfm1i-1226179319256

Be interesting to see how this plays out; the Qantas customer base, and personnel, are strongly connected it seems through social media.

Last night I (and presumably the other 10 million Frequent Flyers) got a wheedling email from CEO Qantas Loyalty, Leslie Grant.

In part, it goes:

I have received many questions both directly and through social media and wanted to reach out to you personally as a valued member. These are tough but necessary measures to ensure a strong future for Qantas and our nearly 10 million Qantas Frequent Flyer members. Let me assure you, however, that these measures will not impact your Qantas Points balance or cause your Qantas Points to expire.

 

This sounds a little desperate to me! So I emailed in return (imagine if just 1% of the 10 million did):

Thanks Lesley,

By now you will have realised what Alan is about to do to Qantas.

I shan’t be troubling you any more, I have serious doubt about flying an airline whose workforce is disgruntled, on reliability and safety grounds.

Please remove me from your FF Programme, and remove me from your mailing list.

 

Be interesting to see if Alan Joyce makes it to the end of the month...

 

"

Today’s hardships aren’t new for the divisive Alan Joyce. Mr Joyce dominated headlines in October 2011 when Qantas management was embroiled in a bruising battle with the unions.

After months of impasse, demands and industrial action, Mr Joyce took the extraordinary and unprecedented step of grounding the entire fleet of Qantas.

In all, hundreds of flights were cancelled all over the world, leaving tens of thousands of passengers stranded from Melbourne to Helsinki. He also locked out all striking staff members.

Three days later, Qantas and the unions were hauled before Fair Work Australia which ordered all industrial action cease. The whole exercise cost Qantas $70 million.

Some called Mr Joyce’s decision bold while others accused him of recklessly endangering the Australian economy. The legacy of that decision is still being debated with detractors and supporters of Mr Joyce’s strategy continuously slugging it out.

"

 

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/the-worst-work-days-for-bosses-of-qantas-bp-jp-morgan-chase-nine-and-the-nrl/story-fn5tas5k-1226839326474

 

 

leaving tens of thousands of passengers stranded from Melbourne to Helsinki.

... is indicative of Mr. Joyce's approach to the business.

I was there, and formed an opinion of him that will be difficult to shake.

He represents the Ugly Face of Capitalism (tough Irish version) in its most naked form.

There are other ways of streamlining an ailing business.

 

 

(Used without permission)

... is indicative of Mr. Joyce's approach to the business.

I was there, and formed an opinion of him that will be difficult to shake.

He represents the Ugly Face of Capitalism (tough Irish version) in its most naked form.

There are other ways of streamlining an ailing business.

 

 

(Used without permission)

Kindly put it in context please:

 

"After months of impasse, demands and industrial action, Mr Joyce took the extraordinary and unprecedented step of grounding the entire fleet of Qantas."

AND:

"His restructuring plan to make Qantas more competitive in the international market received near unanimous support from shareholders… The plans were the catalyst for two unions—the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) and the Transport Workers Union (TWU)—to implement rolling strikes this year. A third union, the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA), made unauthorized, in-flight announcements to vent their concerns…"

EDIT:

You say approach, it was response to the union's militancy. Whatever side you wish to blame, there was blatant evidence that staff were campaigning against reform when Alan Joyce saw the writing on the wall with Virgin's introduction of business class on the new Airbus A330-200s.

 

Now the losses have hit and jobs must go. Simple. Not much else to say really.

 

Apart from the unions campaign in 2010-2011. Virgin on the other hand could employ new staff far cheaper than QANTAS was paying theirs. Joyce knew who the winners were.

 

You may be bitter for a few days of waiting or it may be that you never liked him anyway, but the fact is critics never offer any suggestions except like you said "could have done things differently". And what exactly is 'other ways of streamlining the business'?

Sucks to be QF ar the moment. Just heard there was a collision at KLAX between a QF 747 and an A380. Both aircraft damaged forcing the cancellation of the flights to BN and ML. No doubt this is the CEO's fault as well....

 

Sent from my Mobile thing

Yep. Sack Alan Joyce.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/9779424/Qantas-From-national-icon-to-corporate-tragedy

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/in_all_the_commentary_about_qantas_a_number_of_persons_some_of_whom_should_/