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J van E

I turned off the popup free autogen

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This afternoon I reinstalled FSX so I could compare it with P3D v2.1. I found out that you tend to forget things over time... I for instance forgot how smooth FSX runs with the DX10 fixer and the bufferpools tweak. I was actually shocked to see how much smoother FSX runs! And with autogen at Extremely dense too! P3D 2.1 stutters a lot more than I wanted to think... I also forgot how dull FSX looks out of the box: the colors and light in P3D is so much better. The VC-shadows in P3D blow the DX10 shadows out of the sky.

 

Overall I like the mood etc. in P3D 2.1 a lot more so I decided I'd rather stick with P3D, but those OOMs... they really spoil it. And I also like that Extremely autogen in FSX...!!! But then I thought: if I am so close to going back to FSX, why not make P3D bit more like FSX and disable the pop free autogen? The FTX NCA autogen in P3D pops in and out anyway. So I disabled the feature. And I also set autogen to Extremely dense instead of Very dense.

 

I just finished my first flight with these settings and I am happy to report that thinks looked great: autogen popup is of course obvious but the same as it is in FSX and not too bad (not as bad as I seemed to remember). Extremely autogen looks extremely good in P3D too! And apparently disabling popup free autogen is THE key to avoid OOMs because while this exact same flight gave me OOMs after 15 minutes with autogen at Very dense (flew it a few times and always had OOMs), I could finish the 40 minute flight now without an OOM and VAS steady at 3.4. (I flew the A2A C172.)

 

Of course it's a compromise, and a rather big one too, but for now I think I will stick with these settings. P3D just looks so much better: the only real drawback right now is that it's not as smooth as FSX. Hopefully LM will manage to remove the stutters (I still wonder what happened to the solution they found for that 'legacy stutter' because 2.1 only stutters more...!) I think I will have to fool around with AM and the fps setting some more to see if I can improve things somehow.

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Interesting findings.  I might have to try a high speed flight with the popup-free autogen turned off and see if it helps performance, seeing as at high speeds it 'pops up' anyways (sometimes a few hundred feet in the air!). :lol:

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Is this with the Veggie slider set to extremely dense aswell? The one that supposedly causes OOM's to occur fast? There seems to be so many different "fixes" floating around on various forums. I'll try this, no doubt. Thanks testing so many variables :) 

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Is this with the Veggie slider set to extremely dense aswell?

 

Yes. But when you disable pop free autogen, you are in fact the FSX-autogen system, so you will see it pop up everywhere just as in FSX. Pop free autogen is a great feature but it also eats VAS.

 

 

 

What is "popup free autogen"?

 

It's the new P3D v2 system where autogen is steady within a large circle around your aircraft. You can turn this off in the Prepar3d.cfg (pop_free_autogen=o or 1 where 0 is off and 1 is on): turning it off gives you the old fashioned FSX autogen system.

 

BTW I didn't post this as 'the OOM fix', my post is more about making compromises and forgetting how good FSX was in certain regards, but it does help preventing OOMs because far less autogen is loaded into memory at any given time. Obviously pop free autogen looks a lot better but you have to make compromises... Last weekend I had autogen at Dense to avoid OOMs but now I managed to fly for 40 minutes without getting close to an OOM above FTX NCA: I am an autogen lover so being able to use Extremely dense again is great, even with popup...

 

EDIT

BTW I also had the radius slider at the highest setting (Max) but the next flight I will set it one notch lower (which still is Ultra) because with high settings the scenery loads a bit closer anyway. Maybe lowering this setting also helps a little.

 

Concerning VAS in my flight: halfway through it was at 3.4 or so, so I was expecting an OOM, but when I landed it was still 3.4 so at a certain moment is seems to stabilize, depending on how you tax your system.

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Jeroen,

"You can turn this off in the Prepar3d.cfg (popup_free_autogen=o or 1 where 0 is off and 1 is on)"

 

 

I looked in my cfg file .. I see a different name:

 

[sCENERY]
POP_FREE_AUTOGEN=1
AUTOGEN_BATCH_LOD=2
AUTOGEN_TREE_LOD=2
IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=2

 

Here it is pop .. not popup.

 

Is mine wrong?

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Here it is pop .. not popup.

 

 

 

Is mine wrong?

 

Oops, bummer, my bad!!! I edited my posts (can't edit the topic title): it's POP indeed. Sorry for the confusion!

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I could finish the 40 minute flight now without an OOM and VAS steady at 3.4.

 

That still seems perilously close and leaves little room for a spike, which seemed to plague me... I go be happily flying at 2.7 feeling invincible and then bang! it would suddenly fill, for no obvious reason, and I was out. By comparison FSX seems to stay between 2.3 – 2.7 for me.

 

Do the trees still do their flashing thing with Pop Free?... that bugs the hell out of me; if I'm flying over dense woodland I don't want half of them switching off... someone seemed to suggest this was an optimisation, but I find that hard to believe.

 

I do agree about the look and feel of P3D... it is different and very nice. I have spend some time today playing with SHADE and ENB {which I do very much enjoy} trying to get a similar feel, which I can't... having said that I can get FSX looking very beautiful in its own right. What has been nice is chucking back all my add-ons, FTX regions with freeware and payware airfields etc, and flying without a care. I hope LM achieve at least an FSX level of stability, which seems like a crazy thing to be aiming for.

 

And boy, is that half refresh rate vsync smooth... I do hope that can be used in P3D at some point too.

 

I may reinstall P3D next week and add just NCA at a test bed playground, and keep FSX for long, enjoyable and relaxed flying.

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I will have to give this a try.  When I run autogen veggies at a higher setting that Normal, my VAS reading increases to the point of an oom.   This might be a good compromise.

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It would seem turning off the popup-free autogen does not fix the root cause of OOM's, which is that the terrain engine fails to unload scenery data when it becomes overloaded. However reducing the load on the terrain engine might be enough to work around the issue for some. This can be done by reducing settings, but turning off popup-free autogen is obviously another way.

 

Between the OOM's, XML issues and flickering trees, P3D 1.4 is still my sim of choice for now.

Edited by JimmiG

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Do the trees still do their flashing thing with Pop Free?... that bugs the hell out of me; if I'm flying over dense woodland I don't want half of them switching off...

 

Well, the 'fun' part is that you wouldn't really notice that because things pop up all the time LOL I have the idea though that once the autogen has been loaded, it stays there. I will have a close look at it during my next flight.

 

 

 


However reducing the load on the terrain engine might be enough to work around the issue for some. This can be done by reducing settings, but turning off popup-free autogen is obviously another way.

 

It is a workaround indeed but it's one that makes a HUGE difference, where other workarounds only help a little. As I said, with pop free autogen off I can use Extremely dense autogen and that's was absolutely impossible with any of the other workarounds (also because most workarounds involve lower autogen settings LOL)

 

The flight I tested this with in NCA was Ashland Mun-Parker (S03 to Ward (0O9), which has you flying over lots of trees and mountains all the time. After reaching Ward I didn't land but took a left turn (HDG around 130) which keeps you over mountains and trees all the time.

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The more I read about P3Dv2, the more I fail to understand it's benefits. So, if I have P3Dv2, from what I have gleaned, I can run very few native addons, as many will not work 100% correctly, the water, in my experience, is far inferior to FSX, there seem to be many people reporting stuttering, the density of autogen is less than in FSX to get things to function correctly, OOM errors seem to be a daily occurrence for many and now the autogen pops up in the same fashion as with FSX  ???  !!! So can someone please explain to me the benefits that I will, supposedly, enjoy.

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The more I read about P3Dv2, the more I fail to understand it's benefits. So, if I have P3Dv2, from what I have gleaned, I can run very few native addons, as many will not work 100% correctly, the water, in my experience, is far inferior to FSX, there seem to be many people reporting stuttering, the density of autogen is less than in FSX to get things to function correctly, OOM errors seem to be a daily occurrence for many and now the autogen pops up in the same fashion as with FSX  ???  !!! So can someone please explain to me the benefits that I will, supposedly, enjoy.

 

Dynamic lighting, shadows, and pop-free autogen if you're willing to get more OOMs. Right now, everywhere else Prepar3D 2.1 is inferior to FSX. Whether future patches will make it a superior platform remains to be seen.

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So can someone please explain to me the benefits that I will, supposedly, enjoy.

 

It looks better (light, shadows, mood, realism) but other than that the only advantage right now is that it's still being worked on... ^_^

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Dynamic lighting, shadows, and pop-free autogen if you're willing to get more OOMs. Right now, everywhere else Prepar3D 2.1 is inferior to FSX. Whether future patches will make it a superior platform remains to be seen.

...and that's the irony I guess :mellow:

It looks better (light, shadows, mood, realism) but other than that the only advantage right now is that it's still being worked on... ^_^

 

But then there's the old adage of, you don't miss what you've never had! Don't get me wrong, I've parted with my cash and have P3Dv2 sat on my HD waiting to be installed, but I really can't be arsed. For me personally, it really does seem to be one great big hassle with very few benefits.

Edited by Rockliffe

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It looks better (light, shadows, mood, realism) but other than that the only advantage right now is that it's still being worked on... ^_^

 

Sorry, looks like I gave you a "Disagree" rating for this post. It was an accident, I removed it.

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It would seem turning off the popup-free autogen does not fix the root cause of OOM's, which is that the terrain engine fails to unload scenery data when it becomes overloaded.

 

One cannnot actually ever unload data from used VAS and free up VAS space (a common misconception, one that even I had until a few days ago when I consulted a forum member who is a software engineer). That would require "packing" VAS memory continually, much like defragmenting your drive. Although much faster, it would really cause stutters while your program, in this case P3D, waits for the OP system (Windows) to re-organise and pack VAS nice and tightly).

 

Instead, used-up VAS memory no longer needed is merely flagged as free for re-use (addresses of blocks in the memory stack and their size are noted for reuse by the program, and these "please re-use" notes are sent to the OP system so it knows that that space can be re-allocated, but it is not deleted). If new blocks of say veg autogen data can go into that space (overwrite it), they will re-use that flagged space, and VAS usage will stabilse. If not all the incomming data blocks fit into flagged, used space, the OP will simply use new space, and VAS usage will go up, possibly leaving some small parts of VAS flagged for re-use unused (fragmentation - liitle bits of left-over, flagged space that nothing is small enough to use).

 

That seems to be the main problem with Veg AGN - these are highly variable sized data blocks coming in, because different Land Classes and their associated, annotated texture sheets have very different quantities of Veg, and they are also much bigger blocks than building AGN because trees are more complex to process than buildings, and there are also thousands more trees than buildings.

 

Under certain circumstances, this complex VEG data just cannot fit into used memory (flagged for re-use), so it continues to load into never- used free VAS space, until you may have an OOM (at dense and very dense VEG AGN, a a dead certainty in certain world locations).

 

As regards popup-free AGN off, that also makes sense as a helper to avoid OOMs, because to enable popup free the system has to load memory with even more blocks of AGN ahead and to the sides of your position (in case you make a 90 degree turn), so that it can gradualy fade those blocks into view. With popup free off, it has to load LOD blocks of AGN only immediately around you,as it is  now free to process and pop-in autogen on an "as-required-right-now" basis (hence the pop effect as this takes a small finite time to do).

 

My detailed testing, which I am now writing up a hefty report on, shows no fault with P3D V2.1 memory handling. If LM made any "mistake" it was to allow P3D to process and render significantly more VEG AGN than FSX, plus the popup free autogen option that uses yet more VAS. That choice they made is progress to me, and when we get to 64-bit it will cease to be problematic.

 

For now, self regulation in sticking to normal VEG AGN settings will keep you out of OOM terittory in many VFR scenarios, but in some areas of the world you may still be forced to go sparse VEG (highly detailed Land Class add-on areas - MegaCity-type stuff, London X etc, or if using FTXG Vector in densely populated, well-mapped areas of the world)

 

Rob

Edited by geolpilot

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It was always my understanding the FSX and P3D were meant to be set up for individual systems ... no two systems would have the same settings.

 

And, option "sliders" and settings were not meant to be maxed out on any system.

 

If a pilot has poor performance or errors, try backing off some sliders and optional "eye candy"  .. that sort of thing, until you find what is just right for your own system.

 

It is hard for me to track how the PC handles all this .... backing off sliders is just easier, for me.

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Too often we have an "I paid for it I want it" approach when the hardware/wallet of the complainer is a limiting factor. As one person said, managing the larger sets of trees in a fluid(no opoup) manner is a problem. Eventually you will run out of memory as P3D attempts to store ahead groups of trees that will appear should you stay on course. Naturally people "fly around" so trees to the side have to be loaded as well. This is why the vendor provided sliders. Unfortunately, a strong relustance to reduce the autogen results in complaints.

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All the more reason for a 64 bit sim?

 

But Prepar3d v2.1 is 32-bit so that's not helpful.

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Hi all,

 

I un-installed FSX about a week ago,,,,I have now,,,re-installed it, and will keep it, and use it, until I see that P3d v2.? can use addon's the same as FSX, and will run as FSX does. I still have P3d on my computer, and as I get pointer's from people like you, and try them, such as the autogen.

I do believe that P3d is the future, but for now, it's not ready for primetime.

 

I haven't tried the update software for dx-10, but I'm looking into it. If anyone has it, can you recommend it?

 

Larry

 

PS, we need a 64 bit flight sim, other than X Plane, which I tried and couldn't even understand how to get it set up like FSX or P3d.

Edited by larsumm

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