The Feeling ,VC height 777 vs 737

[Christopher Low 5,379]

Well, you do have a lot of time to do stuff when you are sitting at the gate. Looking up with the mouse to enable you to start the engines is not exactly putting you in a life or death situation. If you need to start your engines when you are already airborne, well....perhaps reading the checklist a bit more thoroughly would be advisable :lol:

[FLEX1978 373]

Yes but they have all the other overhead switches mapped, why not the starters? As a cockpit builder I like to have real switches for the whole flight deck, not clicking with the mouse.

[James Bennett 52]

Yes but they have all the other overhead switches mapped, why not the starters? As a cockpit builder I like to have real switches for the whole flight deck, not clicking with the mouse.

 

Well, the most logical assumption would be that they simply forgot.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

my point being you were judging people who do this as uninformed and trying to achieve realism when really we're trying to avoid the inherent sim issues you correctly identify

 

I was judging?

...or was I simply making an observation?

 

It's one thing to justify crazy zoom levels for the functionality.  It's quite another to try to justify it on the grounds of supposed realism.

[James Bennett 52]

I was judging?

...or was I simply making an observation?

 

It's one thing to justify crazy zoom levels for the functionality.  It's quite another to try to justify it on the grounds of supposed realism.

 

I don't know Kyle, lots of your observations come across as judgemental, intentionally or not. I know it's just your style but it can be genuinely hard to tell so i don't think I'm wrong to bring it up. Tarring everyone with the same brush is never going to go down well, observation or cutting remark, or otherwise.

[Christopher Low 5,379]

Kyle,

 

Your use of the term "crazy" in the above post could be considered to be a judgmental comment. I do not consider using a zoom factor of 0.5 on a standard 4:3 monitor as "crazy". It may not be realistic as far as you are concerned, but I still say that the lack of peripheral vision when using a monitor makes a big difference compared to actually sitting in the pilot's seat. That being the case, compromises are sometimes necessary.

[alex98 13]

having sat in the front seats of a real 777 many many times left and right i can confirm that you do really get a feeling of height off the ground particulally when you lean forward and peer over the glare shield . and ive often wondered why the sim never really feels the same in tha respect even with a 747 which i have also sat in front seats of many times in r/w.

 

my conclusion is simply to do with the fact that you are confined by a small square screen (monitor) in the sim and unfortunately that compromises the real feeling of depth you get from the real world which also includes peripheral vision. Its just not achievable in a sim in a pc . weather or not you get any such feeling in a level d sim i dont know if you peer over the glare shield. maybe someone with experience can comment on this.

 

what i will say about the pmdg 777 vs the ng vc experience is this. the 777 blows the ng away in terms of dimensional accuracy. the ngx went badly wrong somewhere when it was measured or during the modelling process. whereas the 777 is really spot on. the way the glare shield really intrudes and leaves such a small gap to look out of is exactly how it is in the real plane and is something nearly every addon ac ive ever seen before the 777 gets wrong. in real life you can span the gap between the top of the glare and the bottom of the compass unit above with your hand,( little finger and thumb). its this level of accuracy in the pmdg777 vc that gives it a realistic feel first and foremost i believe.unfortunately the 737 feels like you are looking through a bay window where as in real life the front windows gap is like a tiny thin slit in comparison. ruins it for me.

 

kav

 

 

The 777 VC is a masterpiece. I sure hope PMDG makes the next 737NGX SP with remade VC to get this feeling of being inside the cockpit.

 

 

Are you guys going to lower the Overhead on the NGX? It's way too high.

 

I join the queue of people asking if in the upcoming SP1 the NGX will get its virtual cockpit adjusted!

Will be great to have the overhead panel much lower to feel the narrowness of the cockpit which is really small...

 

Best regards

Alex

[Q_flyer 766]

To the OP: Try setting your zoom level at something between 0.8 and 1. I use 0.82 and it's okay, 0.6 is too far back.

 

I agree, a lot of people prefer the lower zoom settings because they make motion appear fast and perhaps more dynamic and exciting in the sim.  (A point to note is that Orbx recommend a viewpoint of 0.30 or 0.40 in some of their manuals, perhaps because it means you get to see more of the scenery outside (albeit in a fish eye manner), and also because FSX's rendering engine makes the scenery look more crisp the lower the zoom setting.

 

But the experience is far from realistic with zoom settings like that.   Everything about it;  how much of the VC you see from your straight-ahead eyepoint, how much of the periphery you see, how fast the runway appears to move when on your TO and landing rolls.   It's fast and fun with these 0.40 or 0,30 settings but far from reality.

 

I believe the most realistic view is a zoom level of 1.00, but some of FSX's artifact factors mean that some aspects (such as crispness of textures) are negatively affected at 1.00, so personally, I believe 0.80 is the best overall zoom level.

The hat switch is useless. I use mouse+spacebar. Much quicker and more accurate.

 

 

Agreed - started using that in the last few years and haven't looked back.

 

TrackIR blows both methods out of the water  :wink:

[FLEX1978 373]

Sorry but I still don't get why everyone is going on about what is realistic or not... I wanted to post screenshots but I cant in full screen due to DX10 & multi monitors. 

 

Dave mentions a zoom of .80 or 1.00, this is completely unrealistic in my setup, not saying he is wrong at all. We all have different size monitors, different default viewpoints etc etc...  some use trackIR, EZdok, some dont..

 

I can have a zoom of .40 that looks realistic, a zoom of .80 that looks realistic. We don't all have the same setup.

 

Is everyone here just setting a zoom level and sticking with it? If you adjust your position in the cockpit and save it with a tool like EZdok then it changes the whole perspective

[Tamadeez 7]

i have ezdok currently. This has made things 3 times more awesomer. Is Track IR going to have this same awesomer effect

[kevinh 409]

It's critical phases like takeoff and landing that i struggle there. Sometimes you need to be clicking buttons in the cockpit and flying the plane at the same time. You can trim the aircraft but only during or after you've used the yoke.

 

My point is that it's easier to simply zoom out a bit so you have more of the cockpit in the screen and thus don't have to pan around as much during critical phases of flight (and therefore not unreasonable to zoom out more than is realistic - my point being you were judging people who do this as uninformed and trying to achieve realism when really we're trying to avoid the inherent sim issues you correctly identify).

For takeoff you shouldn't be button pushing much at all. Everything should be preset correctly. I use keyboard shortcuts for things like flap, gear, toga and autobrake to help keep things smooth. The same goes for landing. Once on the glide slope the only button pushes will be flap, gear and AP and A/T disconnects. All of which I have mapped to the keyboard or joystick. If I still need to reduce the speed bug further, that is in my field of view at zoom of 0.8 or 0.9. So no need for view changes. Stab trim is mapped to my joystick of course.

 

It's rare that I need to slew my viewpoint in an out of trim or dynamic moment. If necessary there is always the hat switch for coarse view changes. Ezdok users can simply hold the middle mouse button down to point with the mouse rather than press the spacebar.

 

 

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[James Bennett 52]

For takeoff you shouldn't be button pushing much at all. Everything should be preset correctly. I use keyboard shortcuts for things like flap, gear, toga and autobrake to help keep things smooth. The same goes for landing. Once on the glide slope the only button pushes will be flap, gear and AP and A/T disconnects. All of which I have mapped to the keyboard or joystick. If I still need to reduce the speed bug further, that is in my field of view at zoom of 0.8 or 0.9. So no need for view changes. Stab trim is mapped to my joystick of course.

 

It's rare that I need to slew my viewpoint in an out of trim or dynamic moment. If necessary there is always the hat switch for coarse view changes. Ezdok users can simply hold the middle mouse button down to point with the mouse rather than press the spacebar.

 

 

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I like to hand fly the approach right from the beginning of the STAR - lot's to do during that period. I could use keyboard commands, but since I only fly once a month i'd simply never remember them, I can't afford to keep buying addons like Ezdok either.

[kevinh 409]

I don't know Kyle, lots of your observations come across as judgemental, intentionally or not. I know it's just your style but it can be genuinely hard to tell so i don't think I'm wrong to bring it up. Tarring everyone with the same brush is never going to go down well, observation or cutting remark, or otherwise.

You said it yourself. It's his posting style. We all have one and sometimes what we write doesn't come over as well as what we would say face to face. You can't really expect people to change how they express themselves. Especially not someone with as much practice at doing that as Kyle. ;-)

 

 

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[AAfan 49]

Since many people have not had the opportunity to sit in a real cockpit, I can understand why some people feel a wide angle is "normal." However, in real life it's quite small and you either have to look up or look down. I took this yesterday to show what the 737NG looks like sitting in the pilots seat, looking at the HUGS.

 

[kevinh 409]

I like to hand fly the approach right from the beginning of the STAR - lot's to do during that period. I could use keyboard commands, but since I only fly once a month i'd simply never remember them, I can't afford to keep buying addons like Ezdok either.

I don't think Ezdok is essential. I used it for a couple of years but it's not installed any more. I was using less and less of its features and in the end found it got in the way. TrackIR is beyond my budget limit and I don't think it would work well for me.

 

If the SID or STAR is in the FMC then flying it should not be a problem re control operations as long as you stay in trim. If you are tuning nav aids then it gets trickier but you should be able to preset frequencies which will help. The course knob is in your vision on the glareshield.

 

As for keyboard shortcuts I have those standardised across all my airliner addons. Less to remember that way. Flap increments are assigned to my stick as is the gear. But the default keys F6, F7 and G are easy to recall. I never use the VC flap lever. It's just too awkward to use.

 

 

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