Sign in to follow this  
Michael Moe

The Feeling ,VC height 777 vs 737

Recommended Posts

Hi,

just wonder if there is a limitation in FSX ?.Most of the time it feels like the distance to the ground is more or less the same looking out the window (zoom 0.60 in the 777 and the 737)

 

On the other hand. I have not sit in a real VC of a 777.

 

Michael 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

737NG : 2,6 meters

777: between 4,7 and 5 meters (depends on loading etc.)

 

So its a big difference...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a shame to hear. I'm hoping to get the PMDG 777 soon and was hoping that it would really feel like you were "sat" in a totally different machine to the NGX, in terms of heightened view, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't feel like that? Seriously? If you taxi the 737 at an airport, and a bit later the 777, you directly have the feeling it's much higher, it's also much bigger, and you really have to take care taking tight turns. The 737 just feels small compared to the 777.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep the VC is bigger and turns is as you describe but the height is something that maybe in reality also seems well not that high.

 

Great VC though and love this AC (VC shadows is also looking great :rolleyes: )

 

Michael

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're looking at it though a screen. You're not 'gonna really feel the clearance of the ceiling since peripheral vision is limited to that screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also the cockpits in FSX seem to feel much larger than the real world also, the 777 cockpit is actually quite small!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I beg to differ. I think there's plenty of office space upfront. Granted, there are other heavies out there that might have a larger flightdeck, but I think the T7 fits 4 crewmembers very comfortably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NG cockpit is very small. Flew on the jumpseat a few years ago, it's not very comfortably at all. 

The T7 cockpit is one of the biggest in aviation I think (heard that from a friend who is flying that beast). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can concour with the statement of the 777 being large and the small size of the 737. I've also been in the cockpit of a 747 and Lear 60. They too have very small cockpits. I found it was hard to get into the seats. The 777 has a very open cockpit. I found that FSX doesn't make you feel like the size is correct due to limitations with the program. If you want actual size then get a proper sim or the real thing. Everything will be different than it actually is due to everyone having their own perspective of what a real one looks like

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should be able to notice the difference based on the visual appearance of taxiway and runway markings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And expecially during taxy you will notice that the 777 feels much slower at the same speed than the 737 due to it's hight above the ground.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah its not that small like i said, i just meant i  thought it would be bigger than it was thats all ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

having sat in the front seats of a real 777 many many times left and right i can confirm that you do really get a feeling of height off the ground particulally when you lean forward and peer over the glare shield . and ive often wondered why the sim never really feels the same in tha respect even with a 747 which i have also sat in front seats of many times in r/w.

 

my conclusion is simply to do with the fact that you are confined by a small square screen (monitor) in the sim and unfortunately that compromises the real feeling of depth you get from the real world which also includes peripheral vision. Its just not achievable in a sim in a pc . weather or not you get any such feeling in a level d sim i dont know if you peer over the glare shield. maybe someone with experience can comment on this.

 

what i will say about the pmdg 777 vs the ng vc experience is this. the 777 blows the ng away in terms of dimensional accuracy. the ngx went badly wrong somewhere when it was measured or during the modelling process. whereas the 777 is really spot on. the way the glare shield really intrudes and leaves such a small gap to look out of is exactly how it is in the real plane and is something nearly every addon ac ive ever seen before the 777 gets wrong. in real life you can span the gap between the top of the glare and the bottom of the compass unit above with your hand,( little finger and thumb). its this level of accuracy in the pmdg777 vc that gives it a realistic feel first and foremost i believe.unfortunately the 737 feels like you are looking through a bay window where as in real life the front windows gap is like a tiny thin slit in comparison. ruins it for me.

 

kav

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

having sat in the front seats of a real 777 many many times left and right i can confirm that you do really get a feeling of height off the ground particulally when you lean forward and peer over the glare shield . and ive often wondered why the sim never really feels the same in tha respect even with a 747 which i have also sat in front seats of many times in r/w.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Guess it was this confirmation i was wondering about hence the topic.

 

Thanks

 

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah good point, the distance front the glareshield and the top of the window is really narrow on them all, but seems much wider in the sim!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of your perception of this sort of thing comes from parallax and perceptions of depth.  The latter you get absolutely none of.  There's no actual depth perception since the ground and the glareshield are both 2-3' feet in front of you on a flat screen.  It's never going to seem significant because the depth is simulated.

 

In this picture, it almost looks like DC (you can see the Washington Monument at the far right of the frame) is right next to Tysons Corner (middle).  Having been there to take the picture, I can say that you could really sense the distance between them by the depth you pick up from a number of the factors that go into depth perception:

DSC_5344.jpg

 

Even if you're looking at this and seeing the apparent distance, it's still different than how you'd perceive it by being there versus viewing a photo.  The feeling of actuality cannot be replaced (which is why the FAA requires actual flight time in training, and only allows part of it to be sim time).

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can't tell the difference, then your brain has issues with processing perspective. They are most certainly very different.

 

Best regards,

Robin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can't tell the difference, then your brain has issues with processing perspective. They are most certainly very different.

 

Best regards,

Robin.

 

 

? hmm i take this as a joke ? 

 

I am response to reality . What are yours ?

 

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you use the 747 you will see how much narrower the runway looks compared to the view of the same runway from the 737. The perception of ground speed is different too because the runway is further away from you. The 777 is somewhere in between. If you switch from the 777 to the C172 the difference in eye height is obvious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

? hmm i take this as a joke ? 

 

I am response to reality . What are yours ?

 

Michael

 

No, I'm quite serious.

 

You're looking at a 2D plane, and your brain is required to translate it into a 3D representation in your mind. If you're unable to see the difference in perspective between the 737 and 777 eyepoints, then if you are really trying to tell the difference, but can not see it, then your brain is failing to process perspective.

 

I'm not being rude, BTW. :)

 

Best regards,

Robin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I'm quite serious.

 

You're looking at a 2D plane, and your brain is required to translate it into a 3D representation in your mind. If you're unable to see the difference in perspective between the 737 and 777 eyepoints, then if you are really trying to tell the difference, but can not see it, then your brain is failing to process perspective.

 

I'm not being rude, BTW. :)

 

Best regards,

Robin.

 

 

guess its only me .

 

Now after a cockpit ride in real life with the Maddog, PC is  like flying with fish eye btw . The runway is just eating you up in real life.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think hardware like oculus rift will make a big difference.  Looking at a flat monitor will never look correct or give you that true feeling of depth.  

 

I purchased a 47" 3D TV from a friend of mine moving to Holland. I initially thought it was a complete waste of money until I tried the 2D to 3D conversion and ran the default flight in the trike.  It makes a massive difference to depth perception, just like using a fresnel lense. 

 

Unfortunately it is not practical, you have to be far back from the screen for everything to look crisp. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Now after a cockpit ride in real life with the Maddog, PC is  like flying with fish eye btw

 

Nice! Yes, the VC view in the sim is a little distorted, especially at wider angles of view (zoomed out).

 

If you want to try and really see the difference, get a screenshot of both, line up the glareshield, and flick between them. You should be able to see the difference then. :)

 

Best regards,

Robin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this