Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
FlavioSSA

Eaglesoft Citation X 2.0 in FSX SE

Recommended Posts

Hello everybody,

Quick question, does anybody managed to get Eaglesoft Citation X 2.0 works ok on FSX SE with win8?

The instalation works ok (It don´t find FSX folder, but we can point it out), but when starts FSX and choose the plane, FSX SE freezes. Already did the "Problem Reporting Settings" thing and the plane loads but stutters a lot within the simulator and sound becames intermitent. This shows me that the "Problem Reporting Settings" is only a work around to get FSX continue working without freeze and not the solution itself.

 

Info:

- Don´t have win defender

- Don´t have Microsoft Security Essentials soft.

- Antivirus is disable on the tests

- FSX SE is outside the windows protected folder structure. (It´s alone in another partition)

- Running FSX with admin rights all the time

- Everthing else works ok (Aerosoft addons, A2A, Opus, GSX. FTX, etc)

- Installed simconnect here for addon compatibility purposes: xx:\Steam\steamapps\common\FSX\SDK\Core Utilities Kit\SimConnect SDK\lib

 

So, the question is: is there another way to make it works?

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've not tested w/SE but it's designed for FSX so suspect the issue is Win8 which is unsupported by ES. B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have tested the CXv2.0 in FSX:SE, but only in a stand-alone running Win7 x64. As soon as I install FSX:SE on my main sim computer as a side-by-side, I test the CXv2.0 in that environment as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the answers. Mr. Bill, nice that you´re going to test it for sure, but i think you´re using win7, correct?

My suspicious is that all the problems is with the relation between win8 x flight1 DRM system. It´s too mutch coincidence that the flight1 addons that don´t work in win8 has the same issues (or very close), the same erratic symptoms. For example, it´s exactly the same with leveld767. Milviz F15 appears to be the same. Again, flight1 wrapper.

 

As Eaglesoft uses flight1 app, i think it the problem is there. Nothing wrong with eaglesoft plane itself, but with the system that protects it. Somewhere that i don´t remember now, it was said that flight1 drm system was build for winxp, and today the libraries to make it run correctly is not available natively in windows anymore. Maybe it´s a path to follow. What i know is that i miss too mutch eaglesoft planes in win8, and if this path is correct, i think it will not work on win10 either. Future will tell.

 

Maybe, you guys, the developers knows better, but with logical thinking someone can figure it out to all of us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you been to the Eaglesoft forums? There is some info there regarding Win8 that could help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That info is from a suspected IT Pro who uses win8 on a Mac Bootstrap I believe...

We know it's not the CX or the F1 wrapper but rather the way win8 and FSX/SE interact to the extent that many users can't enjoy simming with our or others products on the Win8 platform. :blink: :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a New Year and we aren't starting it with an argument.

For the benefit of others who may observe this we'll simply say that we do not support Win8 as a viable OS for use with FSX/SE.

 

This is a matter of record from all of 2014 and continues. One need only drill down to the Win8 forum here at Avsim to observe the reasons for our refusal.. The F1 Wrapper has, in our experience, never, ever been problematic with Win7 and FSX/SE or even P3DV2.4  B)

 

Edit: The 99% statement begs verification. Do you have stats to back the statement?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, i´m not trying to start an argument. I´m trying to focus and determine where the problem really is. At this point, my suspicious goes all to the f1 wrapper x Win8 "fight". I have the following "not-working" f1 products:

 

- F1 Mustang

- F1 KingAir

- F1 ALS Flanker

- F1 ALS Mirage

- F1 Milviz F15

- F1 LevelD 767

- F1 Eaglesoft Citation X (Not tested CJ1+ yet)

- F1 ATR

 

"F1" is only to say that it uses the wrapper, not necessary a Flight1 product.

 

I can say for sure to what f1 products i have. ALL of them has the same syntoms, freezes and sttuters when choosen in the planes list. Too mutch coincidence for me. Yes, there are other products not working by now, like PMDG products. But they already said that it will be fixed soon. And in their case the problem is with P3D and FSX SE, not win8.

 

Saying that win8 is not a FS friendly platform is another thing i can´t go, because there are countless addons working perfectly. Even the more detailed ones, like Aerosoft Airbus, SSW, RealAir, OrbX, Majestic, Ifly, etc.... FSX SE runs perfectly well in it too. Even if the problem is with win8, what in it is really the problem? Not the entire win8 for sure. What module, DLL, EXE is the cause? To determine where the problem really is don´t implies that a solution must be created at all.

 

I posted this here in Avsim and not in ES forum, because as you stated, Eaglesoft don´t support win8. Maybe here, someone can point a not official solution as the "Problem Reporting Settings" non-official solution. Or at least, post some clues to point where the problem really is. That´s what i´m doing now opening this topic and saying what i think using the tools i have in hand.

 

Happy new year to all Eaglesoft staff :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Happy New Year to you as well. B)

Flavio, your assertion that F1 is the only common denominator here ignores the fact that Win8 OS is problematic with FSX out of the box.

 

While Win8 can and is being made to work with various sim platforms/vendor products including our own does not mean that Win8 users aren't facing challenges which they have to solve.

 

We are staying w/Win7 64bit until MS offers a better OS than Win8... B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be completely wrong, but I thought that the F1 wrapper was just that - a "wrapper" for the actual installer file - sort of like an encrypted zip archive.

 

Once you unlock the wrapper by entering your payment info (credit card), or by it pointing to an existing licence file (for re-installing a previous purchase) it extracts the installer itself which you may then run separately. Once the actual installer is extracted, the wrapper's "work is done", so to speak.

 

It's not "active" DRM like the Couatl service that is used to activate various FSDT products for example, and which requires a specific DLL to be present in the FSX installation.

 

Ron: FWIW, the Citation X runs perfectly on my Win 7/64 standalone (FSX-SE only) installation - just as it did in original FSX running under Win 7.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

F1 Wrapper is an active drm as you need the file .lic to stay and be verified all the time you loads the addon. That's the part we can see. I don't know at the moment if f1 wrapper do other hidden checks.

 

We know that citationx works perfectly in win7. What um trying to find is whats wrong when using f1 addons with win8.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be completely wrong, but I thought that the F1 wrapper was just that - a "wrapper" for the actual installer file - sort of like an encrypted zip archive.

 

Once you unlock the wrapper by entering your payment info (credit card), or by it pointing to an existing licence file (for re-installing a previous purchase) it extracts the installer itself which you may then run separately. Once the actual installer is extracted, the wrapper's "work is done", so to speak.

 

It's not "active" DRM like the Couatl service that is used to activate various FSDT products for example, and which requires a specific DLL to be present in the FSX installation.

 

Ron: FWIW, the Citation X runs perfectly on my Win 7/64 standalone (FSX-SE only) installation - just as it did in original FSX running under Win 7.

Correct Jim and we're glad to hear that CX runs just as well on FSX/SE as it does on the original FSX. Not surprised, just pleased. B)

 

We know that Citationx works perfectly in win7. What um trying to find is whats wrong when using f1 addons with win8.

The issue under Win8 is part of the challenges we've mentioned for Win8 users and is not related to the CX or F1 in our view. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have some news:
With the much appreciated help of Milviz staff (Precisely Mr. Colin), i was able to do tests with addons using F1 Wrapper and my conclusion is very clear: F1 DRM is the responsable of addons using their method don´t work in win8.

The test was simple: In a computer running win8.1 64 bits i installed Milviz F15 with F1 wrapper and Milviz F15 direct EXE install. Both using an almost vanila FSX Steam Edition. First installed the version with F1 Wrapper. Installation ok, when choose the plane inside FS, it immediately freezes. Uninstalled F1 wrapped F15. Deleted all files associated with it. Installed F15 direct EXE installer. And ..... plane working perfectly inside FS. No freezes, nothing. Did the same thing 3 times to be sure. It´s pretty black and white. F1 DRM is interfering with the addons in win8.

1uyfc.jpg

Look, i don´t have anything to gain with this. For the contrary, it´s a confirmation that i can´t use my F1 wrapper addons. The developers can do whatever they want with this information. Or just do nothing. For me, it´s a confirmation and i´m sharing it with the comunity. For example, i´m sure that if anybody installs any of the addons i said in the beginning of this tread without the F1 wrapper, i say it will work as the syntoms is pretty much the same.

As said before, i did the tests with the tools i have in hand. A logical test. And a logical conclusion. Just it. Of course, i´m open to debate this, as i think some guys will do :)

 

Thanks again to Mr. Colin from Milviz.
Thanks for reading.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting finding Flavio! I always thought that the installer that is extracted from a Flight1 wrapper is the same installer that you would get if you obtained the file directly from the vendor in non-wrapper form. (For those vendors that offer both delivery options) - but apparently there is more to it than that where Win 8.1 is concerned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim, our installer is the same as produced in house PRIOR to being F1 wrapped. While Flavio and Colin may feel that their tests are conclusive we remain unconvinced.

On the other hand we also remain unconvinced that W8 is a viable OS for FS enthusiasts whether one chooses an F1 wrapped product or not. B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting finding Flavio! I always thought that the installer that is extracted from a Flight1 wrapper is the same installer that you would get if you obtained the file directly from the vendor in non-wrapper form. (For those vendors that offer both delivery options) - but apparently there is more to it than that where Win 8.1 is concerned.

 

The F-15E does actually use some of the security options that come with the Flight1 wrapper. If the addon is using those that might be why they refuse to work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim, our installer is the same as produced in house PRIOR to being F1 wrapped.

 

You´re confirming what i´m talking about. It´s when F1 wrap your installer and you activate the security that the problem shows itself. If you use your installer without being wrapped by F1, it will work perfectly in win8. In fact, it´s already demonstrated when you use the "Problem Reporting Settings" workaround. If this workaround is used, windows is just not registering the DRM errors and the addon will work. With the same workaround LevelD767 works too!! Isn´t that a coincidence? Badly, because the DRM is spilling it´s errors in the background, but will work.  I can say this, because i tested the workaround here and citationX and LevelD loads. Badly but loads with all features working. But´s it´s far from being the answer to this problem. What they have in common?

If and when you´re good to try doing a test, just run your installer in a win8 with a fresh FSX without the wrapper and see for yourself that all of your addons will work perfectly.

 

@Narutokun: Thanks for confirming that!

 

Again, i´m open to debate if the comunity wants to. I know i want, because i´m missing too much my beloved addons :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is still inside the OS.

 

Here's why I won't support Win8:

 

1 - I would have to purchase it, I don't pay that much money for junk.

2 - I would have to install it and use it, I don't have enough time in a year to deal with it's issues.

3 - Win8 is well known to have lots of problems with relation to software written for prior OS versions.

 

Win8 is a cell phone interface, that's all it's good for... and it's not very good at that either.

 

Win 7 has 56% of the market share, next is Win XP (the OS they no longer update) with 18%. Windows 8 is only 13% and that's only because of Win 8.1 which is actually 9% of that figure.

 

Win8 is not an OS worth either the cost or the hassle of dealing with. It is the source of your problems and no matter how many times you want to point at the Flight1 DRM system as the 'source'... consider that said DRM works flawlessly across all the other OS systems out there in use... except Microsoft Cell Phone OS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Win8.1 apparently has several improvements over 8.0 and is more stable. That said, since ill only have a drive with win8.1 on it by the end of the month, the pattern I tend to notice with support issues where I work is that some users who have correctly configured win8 on their system, will have no problems while others, who just run straight out of the box, tend to get complete grief.

 

I would venture a guess that that win8.1 can be configured on the user's side to run everything properly without the developer having to do anything special to his code.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 - I would have to purchase it, I don't pay that much money for junk.

It's not junk.

 

2 - I would have to install it and use it, I don't have enough time in a year to deal with it's issues.

There are no issues.

 

 

3 - Win8 is well known to have lots of problems with relation to software written for prior OS versions.

It doesn't.

 

The only thing different as far as usability is the start menu. It's a very simple change that doesn't take much to get used to. It's absolutely usable on a PC with a mouse and keyboard. I've been developing aircraft and software on it for over two years now. Other than that, there are many performance improvements and neat features. 8/8.1 run fine out of the box and I've never had any issues with compatibility or reliability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Supporters of Win8/8.1 or any other W8 flavor need only drop over to the Avsim W8 forum to observe what FSX enthusiast already know.. :blink:

That is to say, they are faced with challenges that we aren't about to bring on ourselves or support for others.

Choose your own poison boys but we'll avoid the whole mess.. B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weird,  :blink:  :blink:

 

I've been using W8.1 for a few months now and haven't had any issues with either FSX:SE, XPlane, DCS or any other steam games I have...none, nada, not a single glitch, in fact,  I think it's even more stable then win7............in my case at least, go figure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I run FSX on 64-bit Windows 8.1, and it works fine for me. I have a lot of payware, and the *only* things I've had issues with are the Eaglesoft Cirrus SR22, and the RealityXP Flightline 'N' and 'T' gauges. All 3 of which use the Flight1 wrapper (and put license folders in the root of my C drive). Maybe that's a coincidence, but it seems unlikely.

I was gonna buy the Flight1 GTN 750 for the RealAir v2 turbine Duke, but now I'm worried. AFAIK they do have a 30-day return period, so maybe I'll give it a go. Anybody know if it uses the same DRM system?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CarlosF and Odd Cosine: Exactly my point!

I wonder what will happen when Windows10 arrives and F1 addons STILL don´t work. Windows 10 will be a doomed SO too? Maybe someone creates a FS dedicated SO in the future?

 

Well, at first, this topic was about getting Eaglesoft CX to run in win8 with FSX SE. In the process, i found that the problem was not with the plane, but with it´s DRM system, in this case Flight1. I saw that this topic don´t got much attention. Maybe because it´s title is incorrect now. (It should be Flight1 DRM versus Win8), or maybe as Mr. Ed said properly that windows8 market share is not great among FS users, but very far from be junk, I  really don´t know.

 

What i know for sure is: Flight1 DRM system broke addons in Windows 8. That´s it.

 

I put this information here, for anybody see it. If someone will ever take action to correct this, only time will know. For me, it represents the end of buying f1 wrapped addons. For others, well, be aware and take your conclusions!

 

Thanks for all who participated in this tread!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...