>Bill, are you sure its not the other way around? From what I>recall, an FMC is the centerpiece of the FMS. The FMS is the>entire system that is tied into the LNAV, VNAV and A/T>functions of the autopilot.Travis, as I have the FULL avionics manual here to reference, I am quite sure.The AT on the CitX is not nearly sophisticated enough to support the level of control that a full FMC would offer, hence Citations choice of the Honeywell FMS as part of their Primus 2000 system.

The original point was not whether the Citation X has an FMC or an FMS; the point is: the Eaglesoft model has neither, instead we have to use the default Garmin GPS.This simple fact was derailed by meaningless statements such as: "why fly with an FMS?"Let's not get sidetracked by (pointless) philosophical debates.ricardo

>The original point was not whether the Citation X has an FMC>or an FMS; the point is: the Eaglesoft model has neither,>instead we have to use the default Garmin GPS.Ricardo, evidently you missed my point:Since the FMS in the Citation X is nothing more than a "GPS wearing a different dress," where's the beef? Functionally, they are identical.

>The original point was not whether the Citation X has an FMC>or an FMS; the point is: the Eaglesoft model has neither,>instead we have to use the default Garmin GPS.>>This simple fact was derailed by meaningless statements such>as: "why fly with an FMS?">>Let's not get sidetracked by (pointless) philosophical>debates.>>ricardoNo sidetracking by us Ricardo:-) We did not include an FMC in the CX for the following reasons....1. We did not want to delay the release of the CX until whatever development time it takes us build one.2. We knew that we couldn't meet the current CX pricepoint and include an FMC.The other discussions were about realistic views of users with sim and real world FMC equipped aircraft.Those discussions should not be construed as some sort of sidetracking by us:-)The link I asked you to view earlier explains our policy on FMS/FMC inclusion in ourcraft and is very straightforward:-)It is also clear to any prospective purchaser that a fully functional FMC is not included. As always if you are dissatisfied you may receive a refund:-)Before this get's sidetracked again let's please remember that the thread is actually about the FSD Jetstar:-)

I find the FMS on the Citation X excellent for what it does. It allows me to takeoff, hit the autopilot, and relax while the computer does the flying. I then program the FMS to setup the Citation for landing, and perform an ILS landing. I hardly touch the controls! And that's the way I want to fly. For me, the autopilot IS my friend :)

Thanks Kicken Chicken:-) If folks really think it through...the NAV portion of an FMC works very similar to a GPS...that is to say that both draw NAV Data from a database, display the flightplan, and inteface with the autopilot to fly the plan:-)The fact that an FMC allows flightplan BUILDING and SAVING is one of the features that FMC simmers like.The other features included in our CX allow for fuel, luggage, and pax loading and calculates V speeds for you is another plus that FMC simmers appreciate along with progress pages and such...works pretty well even though it isn't "fully functional":-)

At the risk of straying back to the original topic, I'm kinda glad to see FSD announce their JetStar. Sure, it's old and not found much of anywhere anymore, but dang it, I think it's a wicked cool looking jet! I mean, c'mon, those four engines mounted aft in that configuration... just wicked. Seriously, I'd buy it and fly it just to spin it around in spot view. I say "go FSD!"But that's just me. I'm superficial that way sometimes ;-).thanks,

I still see Jetstars out there now and then and they are pretty cool looking. They were also one of the early small jets capable of going coast to coast. I think FSD made a cool pick.

Yes, I am perfectly happy with the Citation X... I'd been wanting it specifically for years, ever since seeing one land at KFUL (Fullerton, CA) and having lunch with the Pilots. Guess they were amused enough to talk to someone who flew a freeware model in the FS, and invited me to lunch with them. (Expense account!) They were a married couple, who had served in the Soviet Air Force, and were hired by an American Businessman... What was great, my wife was with me, and she got to talk with the Captain, first woman Pilot we had ever met at KFUL... They had flown the owner from KPDX for business locally, he got into a limo after they landed while they had a layover for about 2 hours. Before that, I'd never even thought of using KFUL for a Citation X, as I girued the 3000' runway would be too small. They did have to use the entire runway and exit from the end to taxi to the visitor area. We waited to watch them take off, and it was much more exciting than the run of the Mill Lear... Many who go in for Big Iron, would do well to check out the Eaglesoft Citation X... THE FASTEST CIVILIAN JET! It almost is fast enought to break the sound barrier.... As for the GPS, Ive -never- used one since spending the time to learn how.... I fly it without one, like every other aircraft, and have not found it necessary in SEVEN flights around the world or any other flights Ive made. The greatest pleasure in flying to me, comes from hands on pilotage. Practicing landings, to land as smooth as possible, when I first take up a new aircraft, I make at least 15-20 landings each day, before going anywhere. DO that with the same aircraft for two or three months, and see what it does for you... Since getting the Citation X, I have stopped flying all other Jets.

We have to agree Bill, the Jetstar is a sweet airplane:-)

Ron:To the contrary, I'm a very SATISFIED customer, who owns all of your products. But, of course, it can't hurt to keep you guys on your toes. Lol.ricardo

Hey Ron just to get us side tracked one last time, :-hah When is the update for the BeechJet/Hawker going to be released???It's really looking dated now compared to your other aircraft or other offerings period these days. The outside model is fantastic but the VC/Cabin is in dire need of an update (:-eek), hopefully real soon... I read mention of an update a while back; I've been patiently waiting ever since...Thanks...

>Ron:>>To the contrary, I'm a very SATISFIED customer, who owns all>of your products. But, of course, it can't hurt to keep you>guys on your toes. Lol.>>ricardoHa Ha, thanks for the laugh...I needed it:-)

Dillon, you can drop into our forums for update information.Trying to turn this back to FSD's Jetstar:-)

"I see the ad for the upcoming Jetstar from FSD. I commend them for their efforts, but I question, why at Jetstar?There has been a cry for a top notch payware business jet for ages, yet no one has delivered up to this point, as far as I know. FSD has taken a step in the right direction, but why not a Lear or Falcon or something that's actually still flying in a majority of the world?"ok.. Ask a Challenger 604 pilot, which airplane he preffers to fly, i mean fly, not push buttons, FLY. A Jetstar, or the challenger, then come back and try posting what you said again. I've flown Lear series 20's very nice plane, sporty, maneurable, nice landing attitude, a jetstar is so far the best airplane flown by the most corporate pilots i've talked to. FSD is developing the Jetstar II not the "old" -8 jetstar, The II has nice TFE 731 engines used still by the lear 45 in a later variant. Never underestimate a Jetstar. They still fly, and are very reliable.