Hi everyone , i  am currently having difficulties landing in bad weather when landing or flaring at 30 ft . After flaring at the 30ft the aircraft would bounce an FS Captain will log that as a hard landing. I am very puzzle right now with two technique i have tried , both work very well but with one technique i would score normal landing an with the other i would score very hard landing . The first technique i use was right after bounce effect push the throttle a little bit up an flare slightly again. Fs Captain wouldn't log that as a smooth landing but also not as a very hard landing either . The second technique i tried was after bounce landing i flare the aircraft once again an bring my throttle to idle . Fs Captain will score that as a very hard landing . Which technique would be the correct one when both appear to be the same ? This normally happens in bad weather on final.

 

A bounce means that you're dropping too fast, which is usually a case of the nose being too high and airspeed too low. Once you've bounced, if airspeed is not excessive, a touch of power will correct it.

 

But keep in mind that the objective of a good landing is not to bounce. Bouncing is a sign of the pilot losing control of the aircraft, and in extreme weather conditions can lead to disaster.

 

Keep the plane with some thottle so as to control descent. Cut power when you're 20 feet above the runway. Use a GPWS to help with it.

tony

A bounce means that you're dropping too fast, which is usually a case of the nose being too high and airspeed too low.

 

Actually, it's the other way around.  A bounced landing is usually caused by poor airspeed management and coming in too fast and too flat.  The VRef of an aircraft is there for a reason...to help the pilot set up the aircraft in a proper attitude for that main gear touchdown. 

 

If you're too fast, you tend to push the nose down and cause the aircraft to be too flat in the flare, so when you hit the runway with the main gear (and possible the nose gear), the wings are still flying and you start flying again(the bounce).  The danger here is after your bounce, your airspeed is low and you're coming down with a high nose up attitude and you risk a tail strike and loss of control.

 

Too low an airspeed on approach causes the aircraft to be too nose high increasing the danger of a tail strike and loss of directional and attitude control due to low airspeed over the control surfaces.

 

My uncle who was a 744 Check Captain for Air Canada (before they got rid of them in 2003 and he retired) was very rigorous on approach speeds...and still is when I take him up flying!! 

Go around after you bounce if you have enough power that is....  so assuming you carried too much power through the approach 

Which aircraft are you flying? The Q400 for example drops like a stone if you cut the power too early in the flare as the drag from those big props is immense and act like a giant airbrake. You need to land it with a bit of power on, only putting the throttles to idle when the main gear has touched down.

 

Jets are different and really there is no one method that is foolproof in them all. For a 737 or A320 you simply want to arrest the rate of descent and cut the power at the same time, allowing the aircraft to settle on the main gears.

 

 

A bounce suggests that you're running out of airspeed which results in a high rate of descent and a hard/bounced landing. Try leaving the power on later, even if this means a deeper (i.e) further down the runway landing. This by the way is something that is strongly discouraged in the real world as holding off for a 'greaser' can lead to over running the end of the runway. As you get more proficient however you can then concentrate on landing more smoothly in the touch down zone.

Interesting. One for too fast and one for too slow.

Interesting. One for too fast and one for too slow.

 

Try flying a tail dragger.   Too fast, you bounce (or balloon if you flare too early).  Too slow and your tail wheel take the brunt of the landing...this would be a tail scrape in a tricycle plane!! 

 

My uncle always had great advice.  One thing I remember him telling me is the angle of descent is not really an issue. He said he could do the same landing shallow or steep descent. If the speed is right at the flare, it will touch down and stay down every time!!

You don't recover from a bounced landing. You go around from it and try again. The danger of trying to save it is to great. You will eat more runway, might strike the tail, over control at such a low and slow state will stall and crash.

A bounce means that you're dropping too fast, which is usually a case of the nose being too high and airspeed too low. Once you've bounced, if airspeed is not excessive, a touch of power will correct it.

 

But keep in mind that the objective of a good landing is not to bounce. Bouncing is a sign of the pilot losing control of the aircraft, and in extreme weather conditions can lead to disaster.

 

Keep the plane with some thottle so as to control descent. Cut power when you're 20 feet above the runway. Use a GPWS to help with it.

tony

I thought bounce landing was common now in our days. I saw couple of videos on youtube several airline made bounce landing in extreme weather such as heavy crosswind. They landing safe but some had to go around .

Go around after you bounce if you have enough power that is....  so assuming you carried too much power through the approach 

I thought of that but i was landing at a very short runway , so i had to put her down

Actually, it's the other way around.  A bounced landing is usually caused by poor airspeed management and coming in too fast and too flat.  The VRef of an aircraft is there for a reason...to help the pilot set up the aircraft in a proper attitude for that main gear touchdown. 

 

If you're too fast, you tend to push the nose down and cause the aircraft to be too flat in the flare, so when you hit the runway with the main gear (and possible the nose gear), the wings are still flying and you start flying again(the bounce).  The danger here is after your bounce, your airspeed is low and you're coming down with a high nose up attitude and you risk a tail strike and loss of control.

 

Too low an airspeed on approach causes the aircraft to be too nose high increasing the danger of a tail strike and loss of directional and attitude control due to low airspeed over the control surfaces.

 

My uncle who was a 744 Check Captain for Air Canada (before they got rid of them in 2003 and he retired) was very rigorous on approach speeds...and still is when I take him up flying!! 

My problem was caused by poor visibility an a short runway . I flare to late an the aircraft bounce . I thought about going around but i was 5 minutes late for arrival with Fs Captain

My problem was caused by poor visibility an a short runway . I flare to late an the aircraft bounce . I thought about going around but i was 5 minutes late for arrival with Fs Captain

 

That FSCaptain does it every time!!  lol!  Goes to show you how pressure is put on real pilots to keep that schedule...a fine balance between keeping your employer happy and safety!! 

Which aircraft are you flying?

Well the bounce landing normally happens with Aerosoft A320 , the speed goes up an down when coming in for landing do to bad weather on final . This also happens with the PMDG 777 & 737 normally on bad weather because of the speed going up. My problem is recovering from a bounce landing.

I would take a missed approach and be late than slam the plane down. Maintenance looks down on bent gears .lol

 

Regards Ted Kiser

That FSCaptain does it every time!!  lol!  Goes to show you how pressure is put on real pilots to keep that schedule...a fine balance between keeping your employer happy and safety!! 

Lol some time i have to rush taxing just to arrive early.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkbnypA7_rQ

There's no way to really recover from a bounced landing. I guess you can make sure the speed brakes are fully deployed and get the weight stabilized, but that won't make the situation anymore pleasant. I've heard captains say they hide in the cockpit when passengers deboard. lol. But that's not really recovering... just sparing humiliation. It's something you need to avoid by nailing your Vref and flare altitude correctly, unless it's icing conditions and you use Vref +ice but even then only within a 5kt range of Vref. You also need to be in ground effect when you flare. 30ft is too high, so the plane doesn't have enough air pressure between it and the ground to continuously maintain high angle of attack without dropping down hard and fast. You should be flaring at 10-15ft per the manual (the NGX specifically) that will help maintain lift through the flare maneuver and put you down gently. It's still reliant on speed though because speed partially decides lift. If you come in too fast you'll have too much energy and float in ground effect till a GA is the only option... or if you're too slow you won't have enough lift in ground effect to increase your angle of attack at all, so instead of flaring you'll just run out of lift and drop.