TransAsia ATR Crash in Taipei

[zmak 331]

I think its a tough one. One of the guys who survived said people were drowning around him and judging by the good condition of the survivors it wasn't the impact the killed most of them.

 

I guess they may have been consumed by fire if not by water , just not a good outcome either way.

[vc10man 732]

BBC reporting that TransAsia Airways have cancelled 90 flights today as it has sent its flight crews for training. Taiwan CAA has ordered 71 pilots on the ATR to re-train.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-31204059

[michal 44]

Having to wait to determine which engine is experiencing problems does not sound like a great option to me when every second counts.

This was NOT the case "when every second counts".

 

ATR climbs well on a single engine, they weren't in any immediate danger, just fly the damn airplane, control it's speed and attitude.

They could have waited minutes after gaining more altitude to perform a checklist with no rush. In fact they would have been 10 times better doing absolutely nothing besides just flying it.

An ATR pilot from Eurolot told me they had 3 incidents in which their ATR's engines inadvertently auto-feathered due to a fault, no one crashed, they were actually able to

fix the problem and regain use of the engine after they went through the checklist.

 

 This was the case of too quick an action, wrong action, in this respect a repeat of AF447.

[petedob 3]

 

 

Assuming nothing catches fire, I believe good training says wait and absolutely confirm which engine might need shutting down before doing so.

 

It seems odd there is a procedure for shutting down an engine after a losing power in that engine (unless there is an indication of a fire) during the first few minutes of flight.

[dmncnpilot 39]

Unless the propeller doesn't feather there should be no quick action other than to keep the airplane flying. Identify, verify and then and only then perform the action of securing the failed engine.

[michal 44]

Probably it is not 'shutting down' procedure but rather 'engine out' procedure, identify which engine failed, verify it is feathered, you may need to cut the fuel off and/or you may attempt to restart the engine depending on the situation. The bottom line - you have to know which one failed and you may act accordingly to diagnose further and run through checklists. Calmly and methodically. But your first duty is to control aircraft and do no harm.

[robert young 2,897]

This was NOT the case "when every second counts".

 

ATR climbs well on a single engine, they weren't in any immediate danger, just fly the damn airplane, control it's speed and attitude.

They could have waited minutes after gaining more altitude to perform a checklist with no rush. In fact they would have been 10 times better doing absolutely nothing besides just flying it.

An ATR pilot from Eurolot told me they had 3 incidents in which their ATR's engines inadvertently auto-feathered due to a fault, no one crashed, they were actually able to

fix the problem and regain use of the engine after they went through the checklist.

 

 This was the case of too quick an action, wrong action, in this respect a repeat of AF447.

 

I wouldn't say the ATR climbs that well on one engine with the other not feathered. It is much more marginal than the Dash, and then you have to add the hotter temperature, low pressure and other factors like not too much altitude in the first place, so I don't think it was that easy. However I agree on your basic point that it would have been better to simply do nothing except carry on until the situation had been properly identified, rather than a panic shut down of the wrong engine.

[michal 44]

 

 

I wouldn't say the ATR climbs that well on one engine with the other not feathered.

My comment was tailored to this specific example - we already know that the failed engine feathered.

[robert young 2,897]

My comment was tailored to this specific example - we already know that the failed engine feathered.

 

Fair point.

[petedob 3]

I wouldn't say the ATR climbs that well on one engine with the other not feathered. It is much more marginal than the Dash, and then you have to add the hotter temperature, low pressure and other factors like not too much altitude in the first place, so I don't think it was that easy. However I agree on your basic point that it would have been better to simply do nothing except carry on until the situation had been properly identified, rather than a panic shut down of the wrong engine.

Could it be possible that the aircraft was not sufficiently climbing to clear obstacles along their flight path and maybe the crew was attempting an engine restart? 

[xplanery 250]

 

 

Could it be possible that the aircraft was not sufficiently climbing to clear obstacles along their flight path and maybe the crew was attempting an engine restart? 

 

I doubt any commercial airline will reach a sufficient climb rate to clear anything without any engine power. The crew simply failed by shutting down the wrong engine. 

[michal 44]

Could it be possible that the aircraft was not sufficiently climbing to clear obstacles

But she was still climbing .. until they shut down the wrong engine also there were no significant obstacles in front of them - even if the stayed at their last altitude, made no turns, they would have easily cleared everything.

[vololiberista 205]

But she was still climbing .. until they shut down the wrong engine also there were no significant obstacles in front of them - even if the stayed at their last altitude, made no turns, they would have easily cleared everything.

They may have cleared obstacles if one engine was at full power. They had little time and almost no altitude to sort out what to do. And, they were coming down fast!

[michal 44]

They had little time and almost no altitude to sort out what to do.

Again, if they were in any time-pressure this was result of their own actions. They further managed to make things worse by not controlling airspeed, flying dangerously close to stall, even keeping the best glide speed could have given them a better outcome.

[KevinAu 441]

They may have cleared obstacles if one engine was at full power. They had little time and almost no altitude to sort out what to do. And, they were coming down fast!

And they would have cleared those buildings if the working engine was on. But they turned that engine off. As in Oh Eff Eff - off.