I consider both a yoke and a joystick equally essential components of my flight simulation. Whatever the strengths or the limitations of either, I want to use a controller that best corresponds to what the real airplane is equipped with. I see it argued that the yoke on your simulator can't really capture the "feel" of the real thing anyway, because it only turns so much, or only pulls out so far, but then they go off and use a joystick instead, which doesn't even utilize the same limbs! I used to only have a joystick back in FS9, and it didn't bother me then, but I don't think I could be satisfied doing things that way ever again. Also, if the FlightSimLabs Airbus is ever ever ever released, I know I'll want to fly it with a left handed joystick, and I haven't quite figured out how that is going to work out with my existing joystick.

What flight simulator needs are yoke with force feedback. That would take the realism to the next level.

 

 

I had a saitek yoke and it was awful. I opened it up to reduce the over-resisting spring and remove the centre "detente" which is a really silly thing to do on a yoke. I then got spikes and jumps despite a good clean of the circuits after three months of use. Went back to my trusty cyborg stick which has never gone wrong. The saitek levers faired better but they get spikes too. Neither were exactly cheap. Perhaps I was unlucky and got a bad batch.

 

My experience was similar, but there's a happy end to it... :wink: For precise control, the Saitek yoke is pretty much unusable with the aileron axis spring in place (it will always 'stick' when making combined aileron/elevator inputs), so I removed this one altogether. I also removed one of the elevator springs, but it still had the annoying dead zone in the middle, which was impossible to remove (it's set in the firmware, unfortunately). I simply accepted that and learned to compensate, focusing on my 'stick' planes instead (I use the cheap but nice Thrustmaster T.16000M, which is Hall effect-based and does a great job, plus a separate Saitek throttle quad).

 

Then I saw someone mention the BU0836A interface card from Leo Bodnar, and decided to give it a go. I connected the potentiometers to the board (it turns out they are not that bad, no real spikes or noise) and now I get nice and smooth response, no dead zone, just a slight detent in the elevator axis, but it's not a problem as it now doesn't coincide with the edge of the dead zone, which used to cause jerky response at slow speeds. It took some tinkering (I am embarrassingly out of practice with the soldering gun), but the alternatives start at a price point which I simply don't find reasonable...

 

Tym

Comparing yokes and joysticks is like comparing apples and oranges. No matter the price and quality flying a Boeing with joystick will always feel wrong, just like flying an Airbus using a yoke does. 

 

I say get them both, cheap joysticks & yokes like Logitech 3D Pro and Saitek Pro Flight Yoke offer perfectly adequate experience for ordinary flight simming. 

 

For me, comparing yokes to joysticks is comparing an apple with a bad apple.

One has unrealistic detents in both the x & y axis, and the other allows for much finer and precise control.

 

I've used both the CH and Saitek yokes, and they both suffer from the same problem of aggressive spring tension coupled with abnormal center detents and a not very smooth range of motion on both axis.

Holding a specific attitude during a turn is like flying with an elephant on the tail.

 

I think you may have misunderstood.   My viewpoint was nothing to do with control surfaces.  It was a far simpler comparison than that, pertaining to the 'range' of movement between the axes on a joystick (smaller) and a yoke (larger). Not at all how this translates to the physical control surfaces of the aircraft.

 

There is increased sensitivity when the full range of an axis is translated to a narrow movement range.  So clearly moving a joystick 0.5cm to the left, is very different to moving a yoke 0.5cm the left.

Here's somebody else making the same point that I was (perhaps more successfully!) :-

 

The range of motion on the Saitek and CH yokes is barely discernible from the Saitek X-55. It's really not that different.

And S-curves can easily dampen the sensitivity on sticks, and also yokes if you want it.

 

Someone else said it best. Low end yokes just can't compete with joysticks in the mid to high range for precision and control.

 

You mentioned realism earlier, which is why I brought up the "immersion" thing. Flying a Boeing with a nice stick may kill the immersion for some pilots but it doesn't mean you can't get better control of the aircraft vs low end yokes.

What flight simulator needs are yoke with force feedback. That would take the realism to the next level.

I am fortunate enough to have obtained a bit of a collection over the years. My very first controller was a MSFFB2 (loved it). I wanted more realism for the G/A And tubes, so I bought a Saitek yoke (hated it, and no force feedback).I then purchased a Saitek x65f (kinda liked it, has lots of buttons but struggled with helicopters and has no force feedback). I then purchased T/M Warthog ( kinda liked it, has lots of buttons but no force feedback). Guess which one IS NOT collecting dust (MSFFB2), I use MSFFB2 for all variations of flying, used in conjunction with FSForce, there is nothing in its price range that even compares, I even bought a second hand replacement, just in case. Why nobody has replicated this unit is way beyond me. If you can find a second hand one, snap it up, trust me :-)

For those complaining about deadzones, length of travel and ease of use (i.e. helicopters), the CH Fighterstick is a godsend.

 

• No deadzone if setup that way either through the CH Control Manager (not required), FSX/P3D, or through FSUIPC (my preferred method).
• Length of travel is huge and allows for precise control.
• There is no heavy spring like the Saitek joysticks.

 

http://www.chproducts.com/Fighterstick-v13-d-722.html

For those complaining about deadzones, length of travel and ease of use (i.e. helicopters), the CH Fighterstick is a godsend.

 

• No deadzone if setup that way either through the CH Control Manager (not required), FSX/P3D, or through FSUIPC (my preferred method).
• Length of travel is huge and allows for precise control.
• There is no heavy spring like the Saitek joysticks.

 

http://www.chproducts.com/Fighterstick-v13-d-722.html

 

Hi Philip,

 

Can I check something? By deadzone do you also mean no "detent", ie when you reach the halfway point there is no "resistance" to movement? One of the awkward things with helicopters is that you are constantly fighting the neutral detent when cruising forward as you need a constant forward pressure.

Hi Philip,

 

Can I check something? By deadzone do you also mean no "detent", ie when you reach the halfway point there is no "resistance" to movement? One of the awkward things with helicopters is that you are constantly fighting the neutral detent when cruising forward as you need a constant forward pressure.

 

By deadzone I mean an area in the center of travel of the X and Y axes that there is no change in output, i.e. no movement in sim.

 

The third thing I mentioned, no heavy spring, relates to flying helicopters. I don't know how they did it inside (it's one of the few CH products that I own that I haven't torn apart to look in the inside), but the resistance is constant (it doesn't get harder as you move to the extreme end of the axis like a heavy spring stick) no matter where the stick is during travel, which is why I love it so much for flying eggbeaters. I've owned a CH Cougar Hotas, Saitek X45, Sidewinder FFB2, Logitech Force 3D Pro, Logitech Xtreme 3D, and by far the CH Fighterstick is my favorite of all of them (although I do miss the force feedback of the Sidewinder FFB2. ).

 

 

There is no heavy spring like the Saitek joysticks.

 

I've owned a x52, and I currently own use the x55.  With the x52, a simple hack with a zip tie made the spring much softer and the center detent much less of an issue.  With the x55, it has a wide range of springs included.  Or, you can choose to fly without any spring at all.  I've settled on the lightest spring, as it allows careful control at small deflections, yet still allows for centering.

 

Long story short, heavy springs have been no issue whatsoever on the past two Saitek sticks I've used.

Hi Philip,

 

Can I check something? By deadzone do you also mean no "detent", ie when you reach the halfway point there is no "resistance" to movement? One of the awkward things with helicopters is that you are constantly fighting the neutral detent when cruising forward as you need a constant forward pressure.

MSFFB2, has no spring, no detent, no dead zone, precise, great with helicopters that have force trim/or not, oh, and has force feedback (FSForce is a must though):-). Only downside, lack of buttons and switches.