I had a saitek yoke and it was awful. I opened it up to reduce the over-resisting spring and remove the centre "detente" which is a really silly thing to do on a yoke. I then got spikes and jumps despite a good clean of the circuits after three months of use. Went back to my trusty cyborg stick which has never gone wrong. The saitek levers faired better but they get spikes too. Neither were exactly cheap. Perhaps I was unlucky and got a bad batch.

 

I'd rather have a stick that works well than a dodgy yoke.

IMO, there is nothing terribly unrealistic about flying a simulated yoke airplane, with a stick. At some point, you learn that they do the same thing. I can fly (real) left seat/right seat yoke or stick. I still fly desktop, right handed stick, while my real airplane was left handed stick.   I can fly long sticks and short sticks. I'm even comfortable with 2" long radio control transmitter sticks.  I do need some type of feedback, even if it's just a centering spring.  I don't need full length sticks, or yokes with proper full arcs. If it's a full size simulated cockpit, then why not go for the real thing. Otherwise since so many other controls are not in the natural flow condition, because we're mousing off a screen instead, then it all feels a bit wrong anyway. 

Consumer level joysticks technology is much more advanced and polished than for consumer level yokes. CH and Saitek yokes all have the same flaws - sticky shafts and little travel length in elevator axis, which makes them mostly unusable if you want to do a good flare on landing. Even far more expensive devices like those from PFC and GoFlight have about 70mm travel in elevator (same as Saitek and CH). May be they are not sticky though.

 

So, joystick is a better choice for the same money in most cases. 

 

And to be clear. Good joystick gives more realistic 'feel' than a bad yoke. Even if you fly 737 and moreover if you fly GA airplanes. 

 

+1000!

 

I got really lucky and found a CH Fighterstick (MSRP >$100) at my local Goodwill for $7.99 and haven't looked back.

 

I have had a CH Eclipse Yoke and now have a Saitek Yoke, but find myself using my Fighterstick and ProThrottle or Throttle Quadrant (depends on if the plane has more than one engine) more because I like to jump into eggbeaters every now and then.

I've had my Saitek Pro Yoke for four years and it performs very well and thankfully remains smooth and glitch-free. Much more immersive for me than using a joystick.

 

I couldn't use a joystick in a yoke equipped aircraft in P3D. Most joysticks have so little travel that I end up over-controlling. Fine in a sim - not so good in a real aeroplane!

 

If you're using P3D as a training aid towards flying real aircraft I would avoid using a joystick unless the real aircraft has a "stick".

The control surfaces are the same on a Boeing or Airbus...not sure why you would think a $100 yoke would be better then an expensive and very nice force feedback stick.

If it's immersion, that's one thing. But from a control view, higher end hardware is always going to be easier to control the aircraft.

 

I think you may have misunderstood.   My viewpoint was nothing to do with control surfaces.  It was a far simpler comparison than that, pertaining to the 'range' of movement between the axes on a joystick (smaller) and a yoke (larger). Not at all how this translates to the physical control surfaces of the aircraft.

 

There is increased sensitivity when the full range of an axis is translated to a narrow movement range.  So clearly moving a joystick 0.5cm to the left, is very different to moving a yoke 0.5cm the left.

Here's somebody else making the same point that I was (perhaps more successfully!) :-

 

Most joysticks have so little travel that I end up over-controlling.

Having just commented in a hardware thread, I'd offer that it's a highly personal opinion on whether you feel comfortable flying a yoke equipped plane with a stick.  I have trouble doing so, but due to the difference in quality between my x55 and my Saitek yoke, I sincerely wish that were not the case. ^_^

 

Something that would go a long, long way in making me comfortable with a stick in any aircraft would be is Saitek would make a left handed grip for their higher end joysticks like the x55 (or if Thrustmaster offered the same for their Warthog).... I emailed Saitek support to that effect a long time ago, but perhaps if more people did so, it might have some impact?  I love my x55, but when I use it in conjunction with a TPM for example, it gets kind of annoying!

Wont get into a debate about whats better a yoke or stick, for me its about precision.

 

I use this because of just that. Nothing I have tried comes close. hall sensor's FTW

http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/hotas-warthog

 

Simple.

 

If I was to buy a yoke it would be

http://www.goflightinc.com/products/gf-pro-yoke-system

If I was to buy a yoke it would be

http://www.goflighti...pro-yoke-system

 

That looks impressive! I'll just go and remortgage my house..

 

EDIT: Just noticed that's in DOLLARS. I'll just go without food for a week..

 

 

EDIT: Just noticed that's in DOLLARS. I'll just go without food for a week..

Its the same in Pounds :o 

 

Wont tell you how much these are then  :wink:  :smile:

I use this because of just that. Nothing I have tried comes close. hall sensor's FTW

http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/hotas-warthog

 

Same here.

 

The stick and throttle are sitting on a set of JoyLocs too http://www.simhq.com/_technology3/technology_188a.html

 

If I ever used a Yoke, it'd have to be of similar feel and quality. I'm not knocking Saitek! I had an X52 Pro before I got the Warthog but that was 3 years ago and there's no going back now

 

 

If I was to buy a yoke it would be

http://www.goflighti...pro-yoke-system

 

I have read quite a few negative things about the GoFlight yoke. I would rather go for a PFC yoke if I would spend that much money...

I couldn't use a joystick in a yoke equipped aircraft in P3D. Most joysticks have so little travel that I end up over-controlling. Fine in a sim - not so good in a real aeroplane!

 

Sure you 'could'! Just don't want... which is ok for sure.

 

Saitek Yoke (Cessna one?) travel is not bigger than, let's say, X-55 or any other popular joystick - same 70-80mm. Moreover, you control them with different set of muscles and joystick deflection you do with much more sensitive and precise part of your hands - wrist (against the shoulder for yoke).

 

But definitely agree, that desktop joystick with short stick will not provide correct muscle memory and feel of real stick in a real airplane and even more - of a real yoke. 

 

I've used to fly with yoke at home. Expensive custom built yoke with steel shaft, ball bearings and 180mm travel distance, and then learned to fly on P92JS which is with stick and had NO problems converting to it. And later got several hours in C172 and C182 - and no problem too.

 

The difference in feel between consumer level controllers - no matter yoke or joystick - and real thing is so HUGE, that it absolutely doesn't matter what you use in sim. Home (consumer) sim flight skill is non-convertable to real airplane at all. That's why it actually doesn't matter what you will use - joystick or joy-yoke. And that's why it's better to use highest quality mechanics you can get for the same money - and that's inside joysticks, not the yokes.

 

But for fancy entertainment reasons using good yoke in sim is more fun and 'realistic'. That's why I invested big funds into expensive yoke. But now selling it in exchange to good and MUCH CHEAPER joystick with long stick tweak. And that's not because of P92JS love - I'm flying in Cessnas mostly.

 

 

The stick and throttle are sitting on a set of JoyLocs too http://www.simhq.com...ology_188a.html

I like them Neil  :smile:

 

 

I have read quite a few negative things about the GoFlight yoke. I would rather go for a PFC yoke if I would spend that much money..

Interesting, i will have to stick with my HOTAS :smile:  

Well, as said above one thing that is true is that it does indeed come down to nothing more than personal preference. :smile:

Well, as said above one thing that is true is that it does indeed come down to nothing more than personal preference. :smile: