I think this sums up what I was trying to say yesterday. We all know by now that SLI works. I was under the impression that that the news of an "official" p3d sli profile meant it would be added to the list, with pre defined optimizations based on the application. From the Nvidia website SLI page:

 

NVIDIA has created an extensive set of optimized application profiles which enable games to run automatically and optimally in SLI mode. There are currently over 260 of these NVIDIA pre-defined profiles. These games run in SLI mode out-of-the-box with no action required from end-users.

 

Is this correct? Or will p3d just continue having sli enabled without these published application specific optimizations?

 

Yes it does. What are you talking about? The default nvidia profile has an official SLI option that is enabled automatically.

 

Sorry to have caused any confusion there.

It's just the level of support, as in optimization/bug fixes, that's in question.

 

I'm not sure why some are saying unless LM announce it or nVidia announce it ... it is therefore "not official".  I honestly don't know where that concept is born from?  LM have already made an announcement of an official nVidia profile.  nVidia often don't include ALL the applications they added support for or bugs fixes (the list would be rather long).

 

nVidia have included SLI parameters in the the driver and SLI does indeed now work in P3D without having to do anything on the end user side (other than enable SLI in NVCP which will automatically set the P3D profile to SLI).

 

What "I think" several are having issues with (or perhaps disbelief) is that the SLI profile doesn't seem to be helping their system's performance in their specific scenarios and/or hardware.  There could be many reasons for that, but many are indeed reporting better performance in SLI even if there are some graphical anomalies (which hopefully will get corrected).  In most cases I'm seeing a 33% improvement and flying thru cloud seems MUCH improved ... I can now run ASN with max cloud detail and get one minor FPS hit even when descending thru a thick marine layer at SF/Bay Area.

 

These aren't my "normal" graphics settings ... but here is my video of GPU usage with what I consider rather extreme graphics settings flying thru clouds ... this is where SLI really started to help performance.  I enlarged (zoom) on PrecisionX GPU usage FPS overlay ... you can see the GPU usage start to increase as I enter the marine layer.

 

 

I'm not seeing any difference in AA quality, but I never had an issue with AA quality as I run 8XMSAA with FXAA.  And the PAPI lights are still good and nothing else appears to be broken ... so maybe there is an advantage to having an official P3D profile for future driver releases.

 

Cheers, Rob.

I just tried out the latest driver and I couldn't spot any difference looking at performance nor AA and overall IQ compared to 347.88 so I guess I'll stay with this version.

 

Speaking of official support what I would really like to see is Nvidia and LM solve the bad AA for us not running at 4K. Surely this must be possible if they work together...?

 

 

Surely this must be possible if they work together...?

 

Sure, that would be DX9 with SGSS AA  ... I don't believe LM have any plans to go back to DX9.

 

DX11 rendering deferred is actually pretty good when objects aren't too far away from view center ... this is why most non-global based games manage the AA issue with distance blur ... GTA V, Project Cars, Witcher, Far Cry, etc.  ... but even those games have instances of AA not looking so good.  If you look at nVidia's "optimized" profiles for those games they often show NO AA.

 

To solve AA issues in DX11 you can apply the same SGSS AA ... only this time (compared to DX9) around SGSS AA has considerably more work to do because of increased complexity in the scene.  

 

If you're looking for better AA from LM I can't see that happening, not much they can do about it.  As far as changes coming from nVidia, so far nVidia are using alternate AA methods like DSR and MFAA to "try" to combat the problem.  AA can also be address on the texture/object geometry front ... designers can adjust object geometry and textures such that AA issue are less likely to occur ... however, in doing so they reduce overall render performance because of the additional geometry of the objects.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Here is another excellent article on techniques: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/shawnhar/archive/2011/05/06/antialiasing-alpha-cutouts.aspx

 

Here is a thread on people wanting a "fix" to AA in DX11: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/544701/petition-for-directx-11-anti-aliasing-driver-profiles/?offset=491

 

Have you tried the AA settings in XP10.36 when HDR is enabled?  If not, try it ... you might be disappointed (I was).  I had to run 16X AA and disable HDR in XP10.36 to get the AA to look good and perform well ... guess what, cloud draw distance will kill performance.  The AA is by no means "localized" to just P3D ... the more complex the scene (HDR, Tessellation, volumentric clouds/fog, terrain/cloud shadows, etc.) the harder to deal with Aliasing artifacts.

 

 

Quote from that article:

 

How to fix this?

 

You don't.  There are really just three choices for alpha cutouts:

 

Go for quality over simplicity. Use full alpha blending, and manually sort by depth.

Put up with sorting artifacts. Use full alpha blending, but don't bother to depth sort.

Put up with aliasing problems. Use alpha testing, and let the depth buffer handle sorting.

 

You're not alone in your frustration, but I sadly don't think you are going to see an AA solutions in DX11 any time soon or in the near future.  Only options right now are:

 

1.  SGSS AA

2.  4K res or higher

 

Cheers, Rob.

I can't get g-sync to work with P3D, anyone else try it?

 

There is a new option in NCP for g-sync on windowed mode which I selected.  I use my monitor's built in refresh rate gauge when testing if a particular game is working.  All seems to be working as it should except for P3D, the refresh rate gauge stays at 144 Hz.  Maybe I'm missing another option?

I wonder if there will be no "official" announcement because P3D isn't considered a game and LM doesn't want it precieved as so.... when was the last time you saw an "official" SLI profile for anything BUT a game.

Sure, that would be DX9 with SGSS AA  ... I don't believe LM have any plans to go back to DX9.

 

DX11 rendering deferred is actually pretty good when objects aren't too far away from view center ... this is why most non-global based games manage the AA issue with distance blur ... GTA V, Project Cars, Witcher, Far Cry, etc.  ... but even those games have instances of AA not looking so good.  If you look at nVidia's "optimized" profiles for those games they often show NO AA.

 

To solve AA issues in DX11 you can apply the same SGSS AA ... only this time (compared to DX9) around SGSS AA has considerably more work to do because of increased complexity in the scene.  

 

If you're looking for better AA from LM I can't see that happening, not much they can do about it.  As far as changes coming from nVidia, so far nVidia are using alternate AA methods like DSR and MFAA to "try" to combat the problem.  AA can also be address on the texture/object geometry front ... designers can adjust object geometry and textures such that AA issue are less likely to occur ... however, in doing so they reduce overall render performance because of the additional geometry of the objects.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Here is another excellent article on techniques: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/shawnhar/archive/2011/05/06/antialiasing-alpha-cutouts.aspx

 

Here is a thread on people wanting a "fix" to AA in DX11: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/544701/petition-for-directx-11-anti-aliasing-driver-profiles/?offset=491

 

Have you tried the AA settings in XP10.36 when HDR is enabled?  If not, try it ... you might be disappointed (I was).  I had to run 16X AA and disable HDR in XP10.36 to get the AA to look good and perform well ... guess what, cloud draw distance will kill performance.  The AA is by no means "localized" to just P3D ... the more complex the scene (HDR, Tessellation, volumentric clouds/fog, terrain/cloud shadows, etc.) the harder to deal with Aliasing artifacts.

 

 

Quote from that article:

 

You're not alone in your frustration, but I sadly don't think you are going to see an AA solutions in DX11 any time soon or in the near future.  Only options right now are:

 

1.  SGSS AA

2.  4K res or higher

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

Amen sir and thanks for the explanation!!!

 

IMHO running 2 or 4 x SGSS + 2 respective 4 MSAA within P3D2 is doing a dam good job even flying through clouds. I would suggest to stop handling P3D2 like FSX or FS9 as it is not. It has its flaws but so it has it advantages and i think there will be more to come. And now with the lets say it for now "basic" SLI support we shouldnt complain about it. MS wasnt even able to lift FSX to SLI 11 years ago. LM did it within a bit more then 1 and a half year.

 

Another good question comes into my mind "When will 3rd party devs start developing 100% pure native P3D2 add ons and not -just compatible?" I assume that this would crank up performance as well....

Sure, that would be DX9 with SGSS AA ... I don't believe LM have any plans to go back to DX9.

 

DX11 rendering deferred is actually pretty good when objects aren't too far away from view center ... this is why most non-global based games manage the AA issue with distance blur ... GTA V, Project Cars, Witcher, Far Cry, etc. ... but even those games have instances of AA not looking so good. If you look at nVidia's "optimized" profiles for those games they often show NO AA.

 

To solve AA issues in DX11 you can apply the same SGSS AA ... only this time (compared to DX9) around SGSS AA has considerably more work to do because of increased complexity in the scene.

 

If you're looking for better AA from LM I can't see that happening, not much they can do about it. As far as changes coming from nVidia, so far nVidia are using alternate AA methods like DSR and MFAA to "try" to combat the problem. AA can also be address on the texture/object geometry front ... designers can adjust object geometry and textures such that AA issue are less likely to occur ... however, in doing so they reduce overall render performance because of the additional geometry of the objects. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Here is another excellent article on techniques: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/shawnhar/archive/2011/05/06/antialiasing-alpha-cutouts.aspx

 

Here is a thread on people wanting a "fix" to AA in DX11: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/544701/petition-for-directx-11-anti-aliasing-driver-profiles/?offset=491

 

Have you tried the AA settings in XP10.36 when HDR is enabled? If not, try it ... you might be disappointed (I was). I had to run 16X AA and disable HDR in XP10.36 to get the AA to look good and perform well ... guess what, cloud draw distance will kill performance. The AA is by no means "localized" to just P3D ... the more complex the scene (HDR, Tessellation, volumentric clouds/fog, terrain/cloud shadows, etc.) the harder to deal with Aliasing artifacts.

 

 

Quote from that article:

 

You're not alone in your frustration, but I sadly don't think you are going to see an AA solutions in DX11 any time soon or in the near future. Only options right now are:

 

1. SGSS AA

2. 4K res or higher

 

Cheers, Rob.

Thanks Rob for your thorough explanation. With all this said do you think I would be able to run 4xSGSS @ 1080 without a severe performance drop entering dense clouds if I replace my 1st gen Titan with a 980Ti?

Thanks Rob for your thorough explanation. With all this said do you think I would be able to run 4xSGSS @ 1080 without a severe performance drop entering dense clouds if I replace my 1st gen Titan with a 980Ti?

 

You wont get any answer to your question concerning your needs of SGSS etc unless you go out and get one. Frankly to say that maybe you will be satisfied maybe you will not.

You wont get any answer to your question concerning your needs of SGSS etc unless you go out and get one. Frankly to say that maybe you will be satisfied maybe you will not.

Wow, that's a great idea...didn't think about that one.

Wow, that's a great idea...didn't think about that one.

 

Ment no offense here sir Will put up a vid showing you 2xSGSS and 4xSGSS with 980 SLI just gimme a few hours. But from what i read in your post you suffer performance hits with these settings. I dont so i would like to understand the "why?" and the differences in settings. Since P3D2 i use 2xSGSS and havent encounter any major performance hits with 2xSGSS.

BTW did you read the article about nVidia SGSS settings?

No problem Mickeyj, your tip just sounded a little simple. Of course I could find out by getting a 980Ti but if possible I would rather first have some incitement doing so.

 

As for AA in P3D I too am fully happy with what SGSS provide. My problem is when I use 4xSGSS (which is required in my case to have a good result) the performance turns into a slideshow when flying into dense clouds. The reason you don't have this problem obviously is you're running two 980s in SLI.

 

I've been playing with the thought of getting a SLI setup myself but found out my motherboard (Asus Maximus Formula VI) doesn't support running SLI x16 but only x8 so that's why I'm now thinking of getting a 980Ti instead and hence my question if it's likely a single 980Ti would be powerful enough to run 4xSGSS.

 

I know Rob was playing around with this when he got his first Titan X before SLI was announced for P3D and IIRC he found that the performance would still drop using 4xSGSS when entering dense clouds. That however was when running @ 4K as I remember it so question is if doing the same thing but @ 1080 would allow the use of 4xSGSS without a severe performance hit.

Did some searching on the topic SLI x16 vs x8 and found this article.

 

It's a bit dated but I still think it's valid and the results were very interesting (and positive for guys like me lacking 2 x x16 SLI support on my motherboard) showing the difference is close to nothing running SLI @ x8 vs x16.

I wonder if there will be no "official" announcement because P3D isn't considered a game and LM doesn't want it precieved as so.... when was the last time you saw an "official" SLI profile for anything BUT a game.

 

I thought about that as well, but it would be a shame if they skipped us over for an optimized profile just on the basis that those who aren't in the know might refer to p3d as a "game". Maybe they should change " game" to "program" or "title" to clear up any misconceptions.

NVidia refers to everything collectively as 3D applications. Even a web browser like Chrome has a 3D profile and it's not a "game".