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victorlima01

Had a real go-around today after main wheel touch down - fun to retry

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Hi guys. 

 

I was onboard AFR442 from Charles de Gaulle (Paris) to Rio de Janeiro Intl' on their 777-300 ER, which by the way is equipped with a great dash cam for us to get a frontal of view. We were coming in at aournd 5:20 am local time and since I know the area quite well I knew for a fact (which I later corroborated with the crew before leaving the plane) that we were cleared for a GIGSO1A Rnav arrival to join the ILS 15 X procedure for rwy 15. It was still dark outside but as we descended below 4000` I noticed a pretty massive and low fog bank covering all of Rio. Looking at my seat's screen I started trying to scope out the landing lights thinking all the time those guys up front were probably doing the same, just a tad more nervous. We got visual cues from the lighting somewhere between 400 and 200 AGL, right on the mark and the PAPI showed they were right on the money all the way down. But for some reason, the aircraft floated a tad too much above the first third of the rwy and main wheel touch down occured just after the last rwy mark. The captain didn't hesistate and up we go. It was a little unconfortable but also exciting to have a go around after touchdown. They circled back and went for RWY15 again, this time doing a heck of job with the landing followed by a burst of applause from the distressed cargo (I'm sure there about 300 brazilians posting on facebook now how they almost died today). 

 

I'm writing to see if anyone wants to reproduce the flight (or at least the approach) under the conditions we encountered earlier this morning. 

 

The METAR read as follows: SBGL 060925Z 27004KT 2500 BR BKN004 20/20 Q1019

 (my impression is that it was more OVC than BKN...)
 
A few pointers: The region is full of hills. Beware. Because of that, the STARs tend to be steep and leave very little time and space to slow down and capture the LOC smoothly. Adequate energy management is critical to descend in Rio. The 777 is more forgiving but it's pretty usual for 737 crews to have to descend eith speedbrakes in flight detent up until they extend the flaps. 
 
I highly recommend you try this is with add-on sceneries available for the area. There is a specific scenery for the airport only avilable from a well-known developer and also a photo-real scenery for the entire city from a stand-alone developer. That scenery is particularly nice for appreciating the dangerous peaks surrounding the airport (not sure I can comment any further).
 
And here you can get teh charts for free (Brazilian AIP website)  http://www.aisweb.aer.mil.br/?i=home&lingua=en
 
Hope you guys have fun. Best Regards, Victor

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I have the TropicalSim scenery for Rio and Sao Paulo, they're better than default of course but they are just okay in my opinion.

 

There are daily 777 flights into Sao Paulo from Texas and I've simmed a couple of them and I agree with OP that the Rio arrivals can be a challenge. I was way to hot on my first attempt.

 

Charts are here: http://www.aisweb.aer.mil.br/?i=home&lingua=en

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What date was it when this happened. I wanna try this using ASN  :P

I'll probably fail, but it's worth a shot!

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What date was it when this happened. I wanna try this using ASN

 

Victor included the METAR in his post:

 

SBGL 060925Z 27004KT 2500 BR BKN004 20/20 Q1019

 

060925z = 6th day of this month at 0925 Zulu (GMT/UTC) which is 05:25 Rio time.

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Victor included the METAR in his post:

 

SBGL 060925Z 27004KT 2500 BR BKN004 20/20 Q1019

 

060925z = 6th day of this month at 0925 Zulu (GMT/UTC) which is 05:25 Rio time.

 

Oh, I didn't even see the METAR. I'm trying to write a chemistry final reviewer as I'm browsing the interwebz. It's going well as you can tell  :lol:

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Question:

 

When going around, your speed quickly approaches flap 30 limits if applying too much thrust.  How is a  go around done to balance speed and  getting the flaps retracted - I assume back to 5 degrees???

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Thanks Victor, do you have a link to the scenery?

 

Hope this doesn't go against Kyle's forum moderation policies

 

http://secure.simmarket.com/paolo-ricardo-fsx-mega-route-rio-sao-paulo-and-natal-city-pack-5.phtml

 

 

Definately worth it. 

 

 

Yes we came in earlier this morning (June 6th), around 5:30 am local time (0830Z).

 

Hope you guys nail it! I still haven't had time to reproduce the flight. 

 

 

 

Oh, I didn't even see the METAR. I'm trying to write a chemistry final reviewer as I'm browsing the interwebz. It's going well as you can tell  :lol:

 

 

Philip go fly! you can always take that class again next year. haha jk, best of luck with your finals

Question:

 

When going around, your speed quickly approaches flap 30 limits if applying too much thrust.  How is a  go around done to balance speed and  getting the flaps retracted - I assume back to 5 degrees???

 

The reason why I haven;t tried it yet is because I have never had to go around in the sim. That's how good a pilot I am hahaha. Jokes aside: yeah I have to brush up on the FCTM and I'll post back. But from my experrience  this morning I can tell you that pressing TOGA on a 777 below MLW sure feels like a shuttle launch. flap retraction should be pretty quick. 

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Question:

 

When going around, your speed quickly approaches flap 30 limits if applying too much thrust.  How is a  go around done to balance speed and  getting the flaps retracted - I assume back to 5 degrees???

 

An all-engines-operating go-around in any jet (and especially an overpowered one like the 777) is a very high workload phase of flight and, as you note, it is easy for things to get away from you if you are not careful! If you want a graphic demonstration of how quickly things can get out of hand, this report is worth a read: https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/547f0781e5274a42900001e9/Boeing_757-236_G-TCBC_10-14.pdf

 

In answer to your question: a real crew would brief the go around actions as part of the descent brief, and it's worth running through them mentally (or even by touch) at the same point in the sim as well to get the sequence imprinted in your mind.

 

The first concern is to get rid of the landing flap setting for a less draggy (and less speed-limited) takeoff position. Assuming the go around is called after landing configuration has been established, the PF will push either TOGA switch and call "Go around, Flap 20.". In the 747, and I'm sure the 777 as well, the system will attempt to help you out here: a single press of the TOGA switches will command thrust for a 2000fpm climb, rather than full chat (available with a second press of the TOGA switches) which should help keep things manageable. The Flight Directors (if on) should also go in to TO/GA roll and TO/GA pitch.

 

PF will then rotate the aircraft towards 15 degrees nose up whilst PM selects Flap 20, verifies the rotation and verifies that the thrust increases and is sufficient. PM will also verify a positive rate of climb and call "positive rate".

 

When "positive rate" is called, PF will verify and call for gear up.

 

At this point, you're now effectively in takeoff configuration and carrying out a takeoff, albeit one started prior to the runway threshold and with a heck of a lot more energy. So above 400R you select a roll mode (i.e. HDG SEL or LNAV as appropriate). At acceleration altitude you select climb thrust and FLCH and set the speed target on the MCP appropriately to clean the aircraft up. As you've got the stop altitude for the missed approach set (you did set it at glideslop capture, didn't you?) you will capture the appropriate missed approach altitude and the A/T should be in SPD mode.

 

Nice and straightforward, huh? It's definitely hard work single-pilot: everything happens extremely quickly, even in a relatively lumbering beast like the 747 and, like I say, it is worth imprinting the sequence of actions in your mind ahead of time. I shudder to think what it must be like in a rocketship like the 777!

 

A go-around from near touchdown is actually reasonably easy: everything happens in the appropriate order and you have a little time in the climb before cleaning up. Now for a bit more of a head-scratcher, think about what you would do if for whatever reason you have to go around from, say, 1000/1500ft or even really early in the approach when you're still above the missed approach attitude and maybe only have an intermediate flap setting. Still gonna firewall those thrust levers? How are you gonna get out of APP mode?

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