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Is there any chance that PMDG would give to the simmers this?
Maybe. But it would be a long time in the future. To correctly model the flight PMDG would need a lot of data from real world operations and seeing as how the planes not even in sky yet any meaningful data is years away.
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Well I don't think is so complicate... It need only a new VC and some little modification on wing model.

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It need only a new VC and some little modification on wing model.
A new VC needs to integrate with hundreds of other systems in the plane. And some "little modifications on the wing model" are going to change the flight dynamics. This is large undertaking and would take years to code. A long way off in the distant future if PMDG decides yes which as far as I know that haven't.
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Well I don't think is so complicate... It need only a new VC and some little modification on wing model.

 

Not so complicated?  It takes hundreds of hours just to do the VC. 

You have to model it in 3D. 

Gauges have to be created and programmed...do you know how many thousands of lines of code is needed to just run the FMC, let alone the code in the other gauges to work with just the FMC?

Then you have the MCP. 

Then you have systems logic.

etc.

etc.

 

Then, like you say, the wing has changed. 

This alters not only flight dynamics such as lift and drag, but other factors like fuel flow, stall speed, how flaps affect the airframe, reaction of the airframe in different phases of flight (takeoff, cruise, approach), etc, etc.

 

Then there are new engines.  Again, flight dynamics and fuel usage will be completely different.  Sound will be different.

 

Then you have to BETA test for hundreds of hours finding and fixing bugs and tweaking things.

 

Think more in years.  It's not a "quick fix".  It's not a patch.

 

The 737MAX is a whole new beast.  It a new generation of aircraft.  It would have to be created from the ground up to be done right by PMDG standards.

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Well I don't think is so complicate... It need only a new VC and some little modification on wing model.

 

If it were only this much, I don't think Boeing would be trumpeting about the fuel savings and other benefits, and I doubt the airlines would invest in a more expensive and newer model of aircraft over an existing (proven) current model.

 

Nobody would buy a new plane because "they made it look different." New data will come from this model, and, if anyone decided to pick it up to develop for a sim, they'd need to find that data. Currently, that data isn't even available yet because the MAX exists only in computer renderings and display models.

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If it were only this much, I don't think Boeing would be trumpeting about the fuel savings and other benefits, and I doubt the airlines would invest in a more expensive and newer model of aircraft over an existing (proven) current model.

 

Nobody would buy a new plane because "they made it look different." New data will come from this model, and, if anyone decided to pick it up to develop for a sim, they'd need to find that data. Currently, that data isn't even available yet because the MAX exists only in computer renderings and display models.

To be fair to Artur he's talking about simulating the 737MAX, not developing a real one. Simulating more efficient engines or winglets in FSX is not a technological challenge. You just need the numbers to aim at. As you say actual data doesn't exist yet. But what does exist are Boeing's targeted efficiency savings. 1.8% more efficient winglets for example. So someone could produce something very like the performance of a 737MAX, good enough for FSX, simply by adjusting their NG simulation model to produce the target improved performance. You certainly wouldn't start from scratch. Making the new displays would be a big task though. But until the real displays are fully defined you would simply be guessing at how they looked and operated. As we all know, PMDG doesn't do things by guesswork.

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Simulating more efficient engines or winglets in FSX is not a technological challenge

 

Hi,

Maybe...but doing an (almost) "perfect" simulation of a new airplane is very difficult if you don't know exactly flight-dynamics and engine "numbers" so doing just a realistic cockpit with "some improvement in flight dynamics and engines " (made "by case" not having flight dynamics and engine data) is a nonsense for me and, I'm ready to bet, also for PMDG that is and has a "fame" of very serious software company making the most realistic FSX/P3D add-ons ever seen...if you simply want "the last model of toy" (not a criticism here just a different way to see the flight simulation) is better to ask for that to another less serious and dedicate company...

 

Best Regards

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Simulating more efficient engines or winglets in FSX is not a technological challenge

 

Hi,

Maybe...but doing an (almost) "perfect" simulation of a new airplane is very difficult if you don't know exactly flight-dynamics and engine "numbers" so doing just a realistic cockpit with "some improvement in flight dynamics and engines " (made "by case" not having flight dynamics and engine data) is a nonsense for me and, I'm ready to bet, also for PMDG that is and has a "fame" of very serious software company making the most realistic FSX/P3D add-ons ever seen...if you simply want "the last model of toy" (not a criticism here just a different way to see the flight simulation) is better to ask for that to another less serious and dedicate company...

 

Best Regards

Which is why my last sentence suggests PMDG would not consider it on that basis. I was merely pointing out that it isn't impossible to do something close enough for FSX with minimal data.

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As we all know, PMDG doesn't do things by guesswork.

Exactly. So there's no "to be fair" clause here. Something can't be simple if it's impossible. No data? Not possible.

 

Earlier post stands.

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No data? Not possible.

 

Maybe Im not in good thread but not so far about upgrade of amazing PMDG 737, do you expect to add weather radar like 777?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Pierre

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Maybe Im not in good thread but not so far about upgrade of amazing PMDG 737, do you expect to add weather radar like 777?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Pierre

 

...it's already in there?

 

Edit: Michael, you beat me to it.

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It is included in SP1D.

 

In SP1D of 737? 

 

I will check it right now...

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To be fair to Artur he's talking about simulating the 737MAX, not developing a real one. Simulating more efficient engines or winglets in FSX is not a technological challenge. You just need the numbers to aim at. As you say actual data doesn't exist yet. But what does exist are Boeing's targeted efficiency savings. 1.8% more efficient winglets for example. So someone could produce something very like the performance of a 737MAX, good enough for FSX, simply by adjusting their NG simulation model to produce the target improved performance. You certainly wouldn't start from scratch. Making the new displays would be a big task though. But until the real displays are fully defined you would simply be guessing at how they looked and operated. As we all know, PMDG doesn't do things by guesswork.

This is exact what I mean! The external model is already there, the cockpit also, just the panel VC no. So it's not a new one, but I would say more an "expansion" form 737NGX. Also having no data yet, this is something else...

My question was: (with all data by the hand of PMDG) could be possible to make the expansion for 737NGX or it has be done a new product from the begining?

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It is not a tech effort the major aspect to consider, it's the " PMDG policy " instead.

 

PMDG have always released ( gorgeous ) products about Boeing planes present in the market since many years, for instance the recent 777, 737 NGX, the future 747 v2, etc.. and it has always avoided new planes like 787 and for sure we won't see the 737 MAX for at least 6-8 years at least.

 

There must be some strong marketing reasons behind this policy and I somehow agree, even if I really miss a 787....a 787 made by PMDG I mean  -_-

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Exactly. So there's no "to be fair" clause here. Something can't be simple if it's impossible. No data? Not possible.

 

Earlier post stands.

I respectfully disagree. It is possible. I know PMDG won't do it this way but it is possible.

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The external model is already there

 

Not really.  The 737MAX has bigger engines and a taller landing gear because of those bigger engines, not to mention a new wing..  Along with these major changes come smaller changes.  It's a whole new generation, not just a NGX update.

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Personally, I'm willing to wait a while for PMDG to develop the 737 Max. I'm well aware of what has to go into development for FSX and P3D. As for why we're not going to see it anytime soon, flight data needs to be collected from hundreds of hours of flight time. As well as who will operate it so skins can be available.

If it will be an expansion of the NGX, that's great. But personally, it should be its own entity since comparing a 737 Next-Gen to a Max is like comparing a house cat to a lion.

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On 7/1/2015 at 2:03 AM, netshadoe said:

Not really.  The 737MAX has bigger engines and a taller landing gear because of those bigger engines, not to mention a new wing..  Along with these major changes come smaller changes.  It's a whole new generation, not just a NGX update.

Exactly.

Developing a MAX version is a huge undertaking. It's a brand new aircraft and will - most likely - NOT be developed as an expansion to the existing NGX. Considering, that he 737NGX is from 2011 the coding will most likely be so old when/if that time comes, that it will be more efficient to develop it from scratch... 

It's a lot more, than a few panels! I don't really know how you got that impression?! It's a new model (both internal and external), new engines, new flight-dynamic modelling, new landing gear, new performance data etc... I'm fairly certain, that there's more new stuff to be developed, than to be re-used from the current NGX version... 

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The picture in the first post looks like a super mario brothers VC compared to the current NGX

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2 hours ago, Nick Dobda said:

The picture in the first post looks like a super mario brothers VC compared to the current NGX

N8704Q_Boeing_737_MAX8_DSC_9656.jpg

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If anyone is curious as to how much of an undertaking knocking out a 737 MAX for a flight simulator would be, one of my favourite 737 websites has a fairly comprehensive look at the technical differences:

http://www.b737.org.uk/737maxdiffs.htm

Note too, the link on that page to the iPad app which Boeing uses for maintenance and which is part of the new stuff in the MAX's cockpit, whereby it can display maintenance issues and schedules etc on the cockpit displays (you can get hold of that app yourself if you are curious about it).

Even a quick scan through that page will show that PMDG or any other developer couldn't just knock one up quickly by virtue of having made an NG or other 737 variant, although of course the MAX does, on the face of it, look a lot like 'just another 737' with a few new bits, so it's easy to see why some might think it would be easy to produce one for FS. Nevertheless, it is a very different aeroplane, and one which has only been in service a very short while.

Owing to some construction and delivery schedule changes at Boeing, the first airline to get the 737 MAX ended up being low cost Malaysian operator Malindo Air, even though Southwest is still the 'official' launch customer, when they will be getting their first ones into operation in Autumn of this year. Norwegian Air is the second airline to get the MAX and will be starting commercial flights with it later this month.

Here are some pics of some of the 737 MAX's first commercial flights:

http://www.azuanzahdi.com/index.php/2017/05/22/first-boeing-737-max-8-commercial-flight-took-off-with-malindo-air-firsttofly-maxoutwithmalindo/

All of this means that it would be a while before any developer could get their hands on a 737 to start snapping pics to aid with development, recording cockpit sounds etc, etc. And even then, what a developer such as PMDG is noted for amongst other things, is putting in all the little quirks the real aeroplane exhibits, for example, the well known one on the 737 NG where the overwing exit annunciation can come on erroneously sometimes. Some of the quirks on the 737 MAX - which like all aeroplanes, it certainly will have - probably won't even be widely known yet, so I wouldn't expect to see anything other than a cheapy 'lookalike' simulation of the 737 MAX for some time (there are some freeware 737 MAX models for FSX and FS2004 kicking about already though, but they are unlikely to be particularly realistic).

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Furthermore, if we start asking PGMD to do "sortof" impressions of hardware not yet generally available to the public, where does it stop?   People will soon be asking for the DC-6 simulation in all manner of older skinned-like planes.  I say NO- let PDMG remain a "purist" simulation company and not start down the road of allowing accounting bullies to pull one-offs built with existing technology.

We've seen to much of this in all industries, and it is a mess.

Is it just me but does it seem the new gen of flight simmers are way to focused on pure eye candy?   /endrant

Mark Trainer

 

 

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