1. Please read the manual.

 

The "Windows" speech recognizer must be "OFF" or your voice commands may start controlling Windows, too.

 

Don't worry, FS2Crew voice control will still work.

 

See here:

 

http://www.support.fs2crew.com/help/manuals/#pageid=windows_vista__windows_7_and_windows_82

 

 

2. With FS2Crew, if crew audio is routed through your Headset (HS option on the Main Panel), the sound will come out of both speakers.

 

With HS selected off, off the FO will come out out of the right channel (to simulate him sitting beside you).

 

If using a headset, ensure your headset audio device is selected on the audio setup page in FS2Crew.

Thx for the #1 tip.

As for the sound it doesn't fix the issue.

You guys made a center right pan instead of a 180/360. On regular speakers maybe it blends/masks but with anything better it's obvous right away. I got my audio setup on a Focusrite card that goes into external mixer and then monitors. I see it on my signal meter when I isolate your sounds. It's almost like somebody used a stereo plugin (inverted input to fake stereo) waaay to hard. Voice is never on the center (unless you are one ear def you always hear yourself in the center which is not the case when captain is speaking and in case of FO or FA it's full right which is unnatural as well) and it only gets worse when you put your headphones on. Panel buttons sound the same (place the panel near any PMDG button and click them one after another). Other than that I love it. Bought the 777 too just hope you can fix the audio with some update (pan tool or something since you can't touch it globally as it screws everything else that way) as it sounds bad just like the 737.

What is wrong with the F/O's voice on the right speaker, considering he is sitting to the right of you?

 

And are you really expecting the click sounds of the FS2Crew panel to move in space depending on where you place the panel? Wow! :smile:

What is wrong with the F/O's voice on the right speaker, considering he is sitting to the right of you?

 

And are you really expecting the click sounds of the FS2Crew panel to move in space depending on where you place the panel? Wow! :smile:

It's wrong that I'm not def on my left ear.

It's about panorama as it is in real life.

Move in space?? Are you high? Click one after another means do that FOR COMPARISON.

I'm expecting click sounds to sound in (true) stereo because we have 2015 and a plug in to do that for Logic/Cubase/Wavelab is easly available. it's not 1985 and we are not listening to AM radio.

Why comment when you have nothing to add but a "WOW"? 

Just cause you can settle for less doesn't mean others will especially when they are paying $$ for it.

We're using the Microsoft XACT engine.

 

FO's voice is set to come out of "Right Surround" unless you're using a headset, in which case it will come out the "Centre" position, at least for the FO.

 

It sounds fine on my setup, but it sounds like you're using a really complex audio setup with mixers, etc.

 

Your sound setup in Windows should be set to "Stereo".

It's wrong that I'm not def on my left ear.

It's about panorama as it is in real life.

Move in space?? Are you high? Click one after another means do that FOR COMPARISON.

I'm expecting click sounds to sound in (true) stereo because we have 2015 and a plug in to do that for Logic/Cubase/Wavelab is easly available. it's not 1985 and we are not listening to AM radio.

Why comment when you have nothing to add but a "WOW"? 

Just cause you can settle for less doesn't mean others will especially when they are paying $$ for it.

 

Thank you so much for your kind response. I'm not high, there's no need to shout at me, I didn't "comment", but asked a question, and I'm terribly sorry for having gotten you wrong regarding the panel sounds. However, from reading your "Panel buttons sound the same (place the panel near any PMDG button and click them one after another).", I wasn't able to figure out what you were aiming at. There you go, seems I AM high, or stupid. Please accept my sincere apologies. And you are right, of course: I didn't pay $$ for it. I paid €€ for it. So who am I...

We're using the Microsoft XACT engine.

 

FO's voice is set to come out of "Right Surround" unless you're using a headset, in which case it will come out the "Centre" position, at least for the FO.

 

It sounds fine on my setup, but it sounds like you're using a really complex audio setup with mixers, etc.

 

Your sound setup in Windows should be set to "Stereo".

 

Actually it is not complicated I am just able to see how the sound is panning on panorama. I write comercial music hence my setup.

Windows is set to stereo and works as it is supposed to.

Surround might be the issue here I agree on that but when switching to headphones it doesn't cancel out the effect.

What it does It cancels center completely in case of FO/FA or it displaces it about 15 degrees for the capitan. HS button helps but center is still off.

Surround by default pans gradually on a 360° radius in the horizontal plane which is what might be creating the problem when switching to regular left/center/right. 

I don't know how your engine works but something is not working as it supposed OR all the samples were made using forced stereo plugins with a lot of color which displaced the center

I understand that redoing all samples would take a life time but I hope you can implement simple pan/balance button on a update so people using clean output/external soundcards/without surround nor fx are able to balance it out correctly. Right now it is not on dead flat center.

Apart from being unnatural it is also stands out from everything else which kills immersion a bit.

 

One thing to add. TEST/RESET audio button gives correct left and right sound. Center is off like in other situations.

 

I'm not hating like some people probably think (reading is hard these days). I actually went and bought the 777 to support you guys even though I suspected same issue (which is true btw ). I'm just trying to help shed light to the problem and hopefully you guys can solve it.

The sounds are recorded as Mono, but the audio engine applies the 3D effect.

 

We've been using the same audio system for a very long time with no problems.

 

With the headset selected (HS on the Main Panel), and your headset audio device selected on the FS2Crew Audio page, the sound should come equally out of both speakers.

 

It does for me.

 

Can anyone else chime in here?

The sounds are recorded as Mono, but the audio engine applies the 3D effect.

 

We've been using the same audio system for a very long time with no problems.

 

With the headset selected (HS on the Main Panel), and your headset audio device selected on the FS2Crew Audio page, the sound should come equally out of both speakers.

 

It does for me.

 

Can anyone else chime in here?

So I was right then

It's a mono file that is being processed with some effect for depth but it is still not stereo hence the volume difference between left/right even at what you call center.

 

When you put it on speakers it will sound ok due to how sound is spreading and how your brain works. In this scenario both your ears are picking up the wave and your brain processes it that way. Headphones do not have 3D environment and you can hear it right away. It's a left/right thing in this case. "Center" is a equally distributed sound between left and right ear. It's more like balance between left and right to be precise that makes your brain hear it as it is in the middle. You can't fool your brain with 3D effects because each ear is picking up the sound directly from the source.

 

HS doesn't change the problem of left/right balance. It removes absolutes but it's still mono with a effect on top of it.

It would probably work as inteded if all audio files were stereo.

 

If you want me to show you this pm me your email. I'll do a test in all scenarios for comparison to give you the idea of proper audio distribution using your sound as example.

 

OR load your 3D processed file into audio editor and launch a vectorscope. You will see that the audio is distributed unevenly.

 

YT video. Go to 2:40 and look at the vectorscope of a mono file. It's a flat line. Then look what happens when it goes stereo. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEg5pfftMl8

 

Balance knob should help this and is the most simple way of approaching the issue. You will simply pan to the left or right depending on setup to give it a boost and equalizing sound volume for both sides.

 

I'm going on a limb here but if you guys would implement this from the beginning (I found it in the XATC notes) it might have fixed the problem automatically. Your head moves in VC yet the sound is stationary. With this, sound would be placed in relation to the audio listener on a 360 degree area. Dunno if it would fix the hard left/right balance thing which is unnatural but would surely make it sound much more true to life. Remember, cockpit is a closed environment. Audio bounces from every surface, panel, window  and both your ears are picking it

 

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd940200.aspx

 

Fact is, all your audio files should be stereo anyway especially that you want it on a  3D environment.

 

 

Fact is, all your audio files should be stereo anyway especially that you want it on a  3D environment.

 

Hi Paul, this is actually incorrect. Any single source sounds should be recorded in Mono if you're going to further process them to place them in a 3D space.

I recorded the UK and EU FO voices for NGX Reboot. As Bryan pointed out, all voice samples were recorded in Mono and then processed by him with Microsoft XACT. The software allows the user to 'place' the sounds within a 3D space.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I agree that the 'surround' processing is a bit extreme and it should be a little more centred (I actually brought this up with Bryan at one point) but I use the HS option almost all the time in the FS2Crew panel which centres the voices and I'm happy with that . I don't know if this is true or not, but to me it sounds like the 'surround' effect in Reboot is not as extreme as the previous NGX version. Bryan?

 

We could talk all day about the various reflections that happen in the cockpit which would affect how the waves bounce around, but there are limitations and, as always, compromises have to be made. I think separate panel switch sounds for FS2Crew would be overdoing it a bit!

 

Nice to see this conversation though, Audio is one aspect of flight sim that doesn't really get the attention it deserves

I recorded the UK and EU FO voices for NGX Reboot

 

Hah, so you are the 'Rewerses normal' EU female first officer!

Nice to meet you, Nail.

 

 

Hah, so you are the 'Rewerses normal' EU female first officer!

 

....Only at the weekends Rafal

Hi Paul, this is actually incorrect. Any single source sounds should be recorded in Mono if you're going to further process them to place them in a 3D space.

I recorded the UK and EU FO voices for NGX Reboot. As Bryan pointed out, all voice samples were recorded in Mono and then processed by him with Microsoft XACT. The software allows the user to 'place' the sounds within a 3D space.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I agree that the 'surround' processing is a bit extreme and it should be a little more centred (I actually brought this up with Bryan at one point) but I use the HS option almost all the time in the FS2Crew panel which centres the voices and I'm happy with that . I don't know if this is true or not, but to me it sounds like the 'surround' effect in Reboot is not as extreme as the previous NGX version. Bryan?

 

We could talk all day about the various reflections that happen in the cockpit which would affect how the waves bounce around, but there are limitations and, as always, compromises have to be made. I think separate panel switch sounds for FS2Crew would be overdoing it a bit!

 

Nice to see this conversation though, Audio is one aspect of flight sim that doesn't really get the attention it deserves

I work with mono samples most of the time and the only way I am able to place the sound in a specific location while not cancelling the other channel is when using dedicated stereo on specific channel OR applying stereo in the end to the whole mix. Jan Garbaraek is a very good example when using quadrophonic setup. You can hear all instruments exacly as they were placed on stage yet on headpones you don't get the channel cancelation that makes it sound unnatural. Mono galore with a touch of stereo on top of it It would still sound good in quadrophonic setup even if it were mono but that little overlay creates a nice depth to the whole thing and it's very noticable on headphones.

 

"Stereo is only a means of achieving an effect of directionality. In fact, it is only one of many ways directionality can be sonically produced, and a very limited one at that. Stereo is limited to producing only a frontal, horizontal plane,"

 

^^This is why it's so widely used for dual channel as it places that center exactly where it is supposed to be.

 

When you place a flat mono file on a environment it will only cover one channel (as it is doing right now) and the rest will be generated by surround which in this case does a very poor job because it doesn't add the necessary volume to make a flat center. Even in 5.1 and more you need that center for sub or centralized audio. If the files were stereo and the HS button would shut the 3D effect off it would sound pretty nice on headphones. Mono would be flat but still better than what it is now 110%.

Remember we are not listening to music. We are supposed to be hearing captain and FO/FA in first person talk and in this scenario you need to take into consideration how it works in real world. We are in a plane cockpit not recording studio.

 

"While the depiction of directional effects has little effect on the experience of most fine music, monophonic reproduction with only one loudspeaker is not the solution. That is because the body is sensitive to unequal sound-pressure levels, i.e., whether or not the sounds around it are of equal strength (volume). The body itself, which is highly sensitive to physical imbalances, has to recreate the vibrations produced by the sound-source, and this happens most effectively when the whole body is equally subjected to those vibrations. Music coming predominantly from one side creates an uncomfortable feeling of imbalance that is especially disturbing and distracting when the body is in the requisite relaxed, sensitive state necessary to hear fine musical nuances. Our tests have shown that music from four equidistant speakers, arranged as in quadraphonic listening, is the best arrangement, whether they play mono, stereo, or quad. The sound-pressure level is then most evenly distributed around the body.

The body's sensitivity to the lateral balance of sound is one reason why stereo seems to many to be superior to mono with one speaker. In stereo, when the listener is located exactly between the two speakers that are balanced for volume level, the sounds at least come from both sides. But in this respect, mono is still preferable, because the sound from both sides has the same volume level, while it varies in stereo. Because the musical experience is predominately physical, mono with at least four speakers surrounding the listener is the most effective way to experience recorded music."

 

^^That's why listening to your guys product on headphones is generally unpleasant and that balance knob is desperately needed.

 

Quotes taken form Anstendig Institute study about stereo.

http://www.anstendig.org/mainpage.htm

 

 

Remember we are not listening to music. We are supposed to be hearing captain and FO/FA in first person talk and in this scenario you need to take into consideration how it works in real world. We are in a plane cockpit not recording studio.

 

Paul, I have no doubt at all that you know your stuff, but your post is a little confusing. You say 'we are not listening to music' but then go on to quote 'musical' examples. Try not to read too much into it really. For me, the HS option works better. It centers the voices.

 

Just a quick note. Remember that microsoft link you posted on XACT. Have another read of it.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd940200.aspx

 

 

 

Calling the Cue.Apply3D method automatically sets the speaker mix for any sound played by this cue to a value calculated by the difference in Position values between listener and emitter. In preparation for the mix, the sound is converted to monoaural. Any stereo information in the sound is discarded.

 

Paul, I have no doubt at all that you know your stuff, but your post is a little confusing. You say 'we are not listening to music' but then go on to quote 'musical' examples. Try not to read too much into it really. For me, the HS option works better. It centers the voices.

 

Just a quick note. Remember that microsoft link you posted on XACT. Have another read of it.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd940200.aspx

 

 

 

Musical examples to show you the difference of audio distribution between mono/stereo and quadrophonic.

Those examples and their explanations show how bad your sound engine works in dual channel headphones setup and why it is so annoying.

Sorry there is no study about speech in video games

 

You might not read into it if you like but to me the sound is damn annoying coming 30/70 on dual channel and that is using HS button ON while everything else from engine sounds to enviroment is set at  50/50

 

I guess I didn't read enough about XACT (should I read more really? I thought stating "sound is quiet on one side with HS on - please fix" should be enough but looks like not. I'm being thrown arguments why should I not care lol. Kinda carenado approach if you ask me )

 

So for the second part you are right but then it means you guys placed the listener in a wrong place. To the right of the pilot, most likely in the center of the cockpit while it should be placed in the center of pilots head so you get clear left and right (50/50) when the pilot and FA (door is behind in 777 and this is the one I am flying now so using as example) is speaking and 30/70 to the right when FO is speaking.

Right now pilot is half def in his left ear with HS on and full left ear hearing loss with HS off which still proves my point just from a different technical standpoint.

I don't know the details and dev disappeared. Again, should I know this? I wrote long enough to prove I'm right, bought two products to show support and now it's kinda simple. They fix/add balance knob patch and I continue support. They don't I don't . 

Not here to argue. i just want this bad sound volume mismatch gone so the audio matches every other application sound in FSX starting from base sounds to every single addon. It's that simple.

Well, we've been using the same audio system in FS2Crew for a very long time.  Many years in fact.

 

I've never noticed that when using the headset the voices are slightly off centre  :smile:

 

However, I won't discount this report.  

 

Please send me a support ticket, so I can work with your directly.

 

It sounds fine to my ears, but we'll test with yours.

 

Cheers,