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TheNerd

Where Should I Install P3D?

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Hello again Avsim!

 

I'm currently in the process of re-installing P3D 2.5 after experiencing some FSUIPC and RAAS related crashes. I've always installed my flight Sims on my only drive but never in the x86 folder. Should I continue doing this or is it OK to leave it in the default location the installer gives.

 

Thanks,

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I have a dedicated 1TB SSHD hardrive .....E:\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3d v2 and E:\Microsoft Games\FSX directories. I have FSX:SE and X-Plane in Steam on another hardrive. Keeping the FSX's separate seems to avoid any conflicts.

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I should continue doing that: the drive doesn't matter that much, but just don't install into the default folder. I have P3D in D:\Prepar3d v2

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I can only support J van E`s posting, keep your FS outside the default folder C:\Program Files (x86) 

 

 

Jack

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To save trouble down the road - install outside the default folder. If you know what you are doing and how to properly set permissions etc. etc you could leave it default but IMHO there is no benefit to using the default folder.

 

 

Vic

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I recommend installing P3Dv2 to its default location in program files. Remember that many addon aircraft, like the PMDG 737, install folders with read/write files under that location. So before installing addons or doing anything else, using Explorer I simply add the permissions Write and Modify to the "Users(MyPC\Users)" group on that location.

 

Remember that making a new folder inherits the permissions of the user, so if you do that or install to a different drive, add the permissions for the Users group there too. Installing outside of Program Files merely creates a different set of possibilities for problems down the line.

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Steve - I agree and disagree.  :)  In theory and in practice with a savvy user you are correct. In practice especially with a less than savvy user, I really think it's a ticking time bomb. *IF* the permissions are wrong and *IF* a program tries to access a specific file one could get into trouble. The problem becomes worse when the error usually gives no real clue as to the source of the problem.

 

That is my main reason for telling people to avoid the default folder.  It may not cause problems but better safe than sorry.

 

Sadly I think many people just prefer the plug and play method - install it and run. Worrying about permissions and policies are something they avoid.

 

Vic

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I install to a custom for one reason; shorter paths!

 

Face it, typing E:\FSX or F:\P3Dv2 is about as short a path as one could have! :db:

 

That's one heck of a lot better that some monstrosity like this!







G:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\FSX
-or worse-
G:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\Beech_King_Air_350i Milviz\panel



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G:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\FSX

-or worse-

G:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\Beech_King_Air_350i Milviz\panel

 

I have to admit...this was my primary motivator to give the install a nice short path...  :wink:

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I installed mine in default and if you know how permissions work which is pretty simple, I have had zero problems. 

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Setting the required permissions, adding Write and Modify to the Users group on the Program Files folder, couldn't be simpler:

P3DUsersGroup.jpg

In Explorer, right-click and from the popup menu, choose "Properties" -> select "Security" tab -> click "Edit" button -> click on "Users(MyComputer\Users)" group in top box -> add permissions "Write" and "Modify" -> press OK...

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So install it in the default folder and just change the permissions? This forum is always divided  :lol:

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I operate under the ASSUMPTION that most people, NOT ALL, who ask where should I install xyz - don't really have a clue about permissions, ownership, policies, etc anyway. They are SAFER just installing to x:\P3D. Even though it's simple to some, even the easy method posted above can be confusing to some. Consider how many people not only cannot FIND their P3D.CFG file they can't find ANY .ccg files (filetypes off).

 

I say go with simple - fewer problems.

 

Vic

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Where should I install x,y, or z? Why not the place the installer suggests? The place Microsoft invented for Windows apps, and installers expect to use? Checking the Write box is fairly simple, the instructions not very hard, and don't need to be understood, and then only required because some apps insist on putting read/write files in a read only place.

 

Going back to my initial statement, I talked about making a directory, and how that directory inherits the permissions of the owner. That's going to take care of the permissions to write there, *for the owner*. However, that folder with the app installed into it still needs permissions for others, now explaining that to the "less than savvy" sim pilot is harder. Other problems surface later on, especially if the profile is renewed.

 

So install it in the default folder and just change the permissions?

Exactly! Why carpet the whole world when you can wear slippers.

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Steve, one of the first things I do with any 'new' computer system is to make myself the absolute "owner" with all permissions except that of a "Super Administrator." Very rarely do I need that much control! :wink:

 

Nonetheless, I still much prefer short paths. :P

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I hear that In Win10 there's the new "Commissioner Gordon" user group, and that they've got more permissions than Batman! :-))

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lol at the "Commissioner Gordon" permission.

 

Anyway, I installed it into the default location and everything seems to be working fine. No crashes and everthing has installed correctly. I just need to do a 2+ hour flight to ensure I don't get the Runtime Error R6025 again. 

 

Oh, and another thing. I just tested out LatinVFR TJSJ. Whenever I look at this specific part of the airport, the framerate goes from 35 to about 8. It's weird and no other scenery does that...

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Steve, I have a question. Why does PMDG and LM recommend to install OUTSIDE the C:\Program Files (x86) folder? We all know that it´s easy to change the permissions but why should we, if we can install it in a different location? Furthermore IF I want to install my FS on a different drive than C: I have to assign a different folder than the default. I have my FS on E:\P3D25 as my C-drive is an 500GB SSD dedicated to my OS and on my E: I have NO folder named Program Files (x86)!!! Sorry to say but IMHO I strongly disagree with you.  :wink:

 

 

Jack

the Swede in Spain

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You're fixated on Program Files, Jack, I'm talking about permissions, and the effect of them.

 

Remember that making a new folder inherits the permissions of the user, so if you do that or install to a different drive, add the permissions for the Users group there too. Installing outside of Program Files merely creates a different set of possibilities for problems down the line.

However, if you're installing onto one drive, as is the OP, then I still recommend Program Files as the least problems ahead, and no user intervention with location, with of course the ever so simple permission added... Why make things any more complicated than they need to be?

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SteveW that´s exactly my point "Why make things any more complicated than they need to be?" By installing FS OUTSIDE the program folder you make it easy. You also avoided to respond to the part in my posting, where I pointed out that IF you install to a different drive than C: it´s not possible to install within the program folder! Also you didn´t comment the fact that LM and PMDG recommends installing OUTSIDE the program folder! 

Last but not least a "normal" user doesn´t even know HOW to change permissions as that is NOT so easy as you claim. And you call it "the easiest way"! 

 

But let´s just stop here. You recommend your way of doing it, meaning fiddling around with user permissions and against LM/PMDG:s recommendations and I recommend people to follow the developers recommendations! So let´s just let people decide to do what they think is best for them.


:wink:  :smile:  :P 

 

Jack

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I should continue doing that: the drive doesn't matter that much, but just don't install into the default folder. I have P3D in D:\Prepar3d v2

So using a fresh 500 Gb SSD for just Win7 and P3d + add ons is not good enough?  … 

 

Shall I go back to my FSX style with Win 7 on one SSD and P3D on another?

 

I didn't think with SSD it would make such a difference…

 

It would be easier to make images of the drive if all in one …..

 

Thanks

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SteveW that´s exactly my point "Why make things any more complicated than they need to be?" By installing FS OUTSIDE the program folder you make it easy. You also avoided to respond to the part in my posting, where I pointed out that IF you install to a different drive than C: it´s not possible to install within the program folder! Also you didn´t comment the fact that LM and PMDG recommends installing OUTSIDE the program folder! 

 

Last but not least a "normal" user doesn´t even know HOW to change permissions as that is NOT so easy as you claim. And you call it "the easiest way"! 

 

But let´s just stop here. You recommend your way of doing it, meaning fiddling around with user permissions and against LM/PMDG:s recommendations and I recommend people to follow the developers recommendations! So let´s just let people decide to do what they think is best for them.

 

:wink:  :smile:  :P 

 

Jack

 

Well no matter Jack, i'm just sticking to my recommendations because I have Clients.

 

Checking that Write permission is as easy as making a folder. This leads to greater reliability for a number of reasons. Making owned folders for apps that write to PF decreases reliability, unless we add Write permission anyway to them.

 

Let's look at why the "must install outside of PF" predicament came about: Back when we had WinXP, an ordinary user had write permissions on the Program Files folder. Even so it was not recommended to place files there that would be written to by a regular log-on User. There's All Users Docs folders for example.

 

None the less many devs continued to make apps that put Write files in the PF folder. I've never done that myself since there's always been a proper place for them.

 

Along come Vista and Win7 and tighter security. So with our apps with files in the read only places, we now find we have files in folders that we don't ordinarily have Write permission to.

 

We found the sim seemed to work OK with addons if it was installed into it's own folder outside PF, but it wasn't generally known that's because a regular user has Write permission to his own folder. Although only that current User could Write to it, the idea of placing it outside PF was borne.

 

Those products keenly recommending putting FSX in its own folder are generally those that have files that need the Write permission in a read only place.

 

When we log onto Windows we become a member of the authenticated Users group.

 

If we look at the permissions on our own folders, we see the Users group does not have permissions to it. Any problems with our profile down the line, say we make a new profile, and we're toast. Other problems might arise with networking and some other software interaction.

 

However, it's recommended to add the Write permission for the Users group on folders we create for APPS to INSTALL into anyway.

 

So in that case, why not just let the installer install where it wants and put the Write permission on. In my experience we have a more reliable sim setup and less user intervention down the line.

 

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...Forgot to say that LM's recommendation is to install into Program Files, as can be seen by the installation program default location. And in a recent discussion I even noticed PMDG recommending the permission be added which cured the problems mentioned. :dance:

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Steve - I don't argue that it can easily be done. I don't argue that it is easier for the program installer. My problem is that it leads to more problems than it solves. Why? Because, sadly, a great majority of users barely know what a permission is, much less how to set them. Sure it's easy for you, it's easy for me and anyone else relatively computer literate.

 

the forums still have many who post about the sudden lockup, add-ons not working, etc that can be related to permissions - as long as that is the case, I can NOT recommend to anyone to use the default install UNLESS they know what they're doing. To do so is asking for trouble, IMHO.

 

 

My other reason is similar to Bills - I like the F:\P3D path much better than C:\Program FIles(x86)

 

Vic

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Quite frankly, although it doesn't ordinarily affect the average simmer, budding developers are quite often caught out by the character limit for command line utility programs, such as are prevalent in the various SDK tools.

 

I long ago lost count of these edge cases where the only solution was for them to rearrange things to use shorter paths.

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