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Grumstolen

Missing SID/STARS in FMC

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Hey guys ! 

I have been learning the PMDG for some time now, and just figured out how to use charts to find my SID and STARS. But the desired SID doesn't show on the FMC. 

I'm flying from EKCH in Copenhagen to ENZV in Stavanger Norway. My route is: (SID) MIKSI P990 AAL L621 ZOL (STAR).

The SID that I have found is called MIKS1E and leads to my MIKSI waypoint. But the SID does not appear on the FMC. Is there something I have misunderstood in my learning of the PMDG? I have read that you might have to download them manually, but the links people have put up just links me to navigraph.com homepage. 

 

Charts im using: http://www.pentekesti.com/sites/default/files/charts/EKCH.pdf

 

Hope there is some help out there ! 

Thanks in advance 

 

Regards Christian Jensen

Edited by Grumstolen

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Unless you have updated your AIRAC, it is very unlikely that many of the charts you find around the web will match it.  You can find current charts for most all 'European' countries at Eurocontrol - it's free, but you will have to register to get in.  You can get new AIRAC data at Navigraph or Aerosoft - both are good and both are payware.  You can also buy LIDO charts at Navigraph.

 

David Jones

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Thanks a lot!

But, if I use Eurocontrols new charts, my "old" cmc data would still be outdated right?

 

Christian Jensen 

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But, if I use Eurocontrols new charts, my "old" cmc data would still be outdated right?

 

Hi,

Right...

you can update your FMC AIRAC database or by navigraph or by Aerosoft LIDO (Nav Data PRO). Both the sites have different combinations of prices i.e. monthly (13 AIRAC per year to be exact, like in real life) or quarterly etc.

 

Best Regards

 

Andrea

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Ive just look though my navagraph charts I dont see any STAR ZOL

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A current route (1509) would be something like EKCH VEDA1C VEDAR L997 LUNIP (STAR)  - the STAR would be chosen according to what runway you plan to land on, so after LUNIP you'd pick a transition leading into your STAR of choice.

 

David Jones 

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Hi thanks for your answers ! 

Andrea: Thanks for the info! It got me wondering, how important it is to update the FMC data several times a year? It's not like the airports change their SID/STARS often, or do they? 

 

David: Again, thanks for your reply ! How do you decide this route? I just use the RouteFinder but is that inaccurate? 

 

Christian Jensen

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Christian - I am fond of SimBrief.  That site provides routes from multiple sources and you can chose any of them and validate against the current AIRAC.  Then you can compute a complete flight plan, with fuel estimates, and export it in a number of formats including that for PMDG. Read all about it here http://www.simbrief.com/home/?page=home. A plan for the T7 or NGX should not include SIDs and STARs for import - you add those after you've loaded the generated plan from SimBrief or any other planner you like.

 

David Jones

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Hi thanks for your answers ! 
Andrea: Thanks for the info! It got me wondering, how important it is to update the FMC data several times a year? It's not like the airports change their SID/STARS often, or do they? 

Well -- it depends. Any individual airport's procedures may not change that often, but across the world (even across a single country) there are hundreds, if not thousands of little changes each cycle. Airways get renamed, or re-routed or deleted, new airways are added, fixes are added and removed correspondingly and occasionally a ground-based navaid is removed from service (or, rarely these days, added). So whilst your SIDs and STARs might not have changed, if you try to use a recent route with an outdated AIRAC you might find that you're missing waypoints or airways enroute.

 

I update every month because, well, I feel as though I might as well -- I fly the sim often enough that I get plenty of wear out of each cycle and I don't feel as though it costs that much -- also, flying online I know that I'm never going to get anything that might throw me. However, you could certainly get away with only updating a few times a year, especially if you keep an eye on the major changes in the airspace you normally fly in.

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Hi thanks for your answers ! 

Andrea: Thanks for the info! It got me wondering, how important it is to update the FMC data several times a year? It's not like the airports change their SID/STARS often, or do they? 

 

David: Again, thanks for your reply ! How do you decide this route? I just use the RouteFinder but is that inaccurate? 

 

Christian Jensen

 

 

If you fly online atc like profesional network pilotedge, having the airac database updated is key because filling flight plans and atc communications will be based on real life, accurate and updated navigation data.

 

 

if you fly offline i would say once a year is more than enough, you can live with small mismatches time to time choosing an old sid or a different fix/airway.

 

my 2 cents, hope this helps

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ENZV ZOL is simply a fix that appears in approaches. The idea is to have the same AIRAC data (navigation database files) in the planner, as we have in the aircraft navigation system. Bear in mind that these AIRACs represent a snapshot of navigation data from a time period that is way off that used in the original navdata found in the sim. Frequencies may be different, runways altered and so on. Planners don't generally itemise the differences between sim and AIRAC so we don't just make a plan anywhere with a recent AIRAC as we need to be sure the scenery includes the airport with runways as is found in the AIRAC. If we use plans from up to date sources or fly online we might need to keep the AIRAC in the plane fully up to date. If we only use a planner program to make plans then we only need ensure the AIRAC is the same date in the planner and the plane. Naming navaids and SIDs STARs from one AIRAC to another is not always the same, so the planner AIRAC may have slightly differing names to that of the plane. Very few planners make plans from the same navdata files as the plane navigation system uses, so expect some items named slightly differently in these cases. SIDs and STARs are not to be confused with a GPS flight plan. SIDs and STARs are course instructions that may contain waypoints that are not necessarily flown over. To use these in the GPS plan file is a mistake and would take us off course. Make a plan between airports transitions of the most likely SIDs STARs we will be using with regards the runways and weather reports.

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Great response once again. thanks. 

David: SimBrief looks great! And to be able check if its up to date with the right circle is perfect! Now I just need to figure out how to get the up to date SID and STARS, and for that I will check Eurocontrol out  :-) One thing though... When I type in my EKCH and ENZV it gives me MIKSI as the first waypoint. Would that become visible on the FMC if I update it? 

 

Skelsey: Thanks for the reply ! I understand. With all the airports and airways in the world there would have to be a few changes ;-) I'm currently only playing single player, so I might just update it once in a while. But thanks for the tip!

 

Mmerelles: Yeah, updating once or twice a year is what im going to do then! The updates isn't that expensive actually.. 

 

SteveW: Thanks for the long explanation ! Helped me a lot with the general understanding of flight planning!

 

Cheers ! 

 

Christian Jensen

Edited by Grumstolen

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SteveW: Thanks for the long explanation ! Helped me a lot with the general understanding of flight planning!

You're welcome! I'm very pleased it gave you some tips.

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Christian - sure; it is part of MIKSI1B or MIKSI1C...

 

David Jones

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David: Alright, will be updating it soon then! Thanks again. 

 

pcubine: Honestly, I have been a casual gamer with FSX for a long time, and the fact that all the data had to fit together didn't actually cross my mind at all. My AIRAC is from 1109 i think, so yeah... haha... 

But 7 years old charts? From what I have read, it's from 2012. Am I wrong? 

 

As I'm still quite casual gamer, I don't think I will be spending 80 euro on charts and FMC data (per year). Is there an alternative for charts?  

Edited by Grumstolen

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Hello there. Actually you do not need Navigraph ultimate subscription. But I would warmly suggest the FMS Data subscription. It comes as four-cycle per year or 13-cycles per year, it is your choice. Than with that you can actually upgrade Simbrief with latest data and also PMDG airliners FMC and everything will be compatible. Also take a look at the programs called Aivlasoft EFB and PFPX. Both of those you just buy and forget, they are not subscription based. And also with the purchased FMS data you can update those programs to for the compatibility with your airliner. With for example PFPX it would give you actual route with SID and STAR which best fit the calculated route. So the charts become less important but not totally irrelevant because you will still need some important information about departure and arrival airports. But now flying would be very much possible even without charts.

Hope this helps a little bit

Marko

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Hi Marko! 

Sounds like a great feature that a lot of people could benefit from! The thing is, I actually like planning my flight, finding the right SID and STAR, and then just let a program fx. SimBrief make a route in-between. I may be playing FSX once or twice a week, and then I make myself a singe flight. But if I need a quick route, I would definitely check PFPX and EFB out! Thanks for the tip Marko :-)

 

Christian Jensen 

Edited by Grumstolen

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You are welcome. Actually Simbrief is a great flight planner program with great fuel predictions. And just if you didn’t know you could also use it to check the route you programmed previously with SID and STAR. Just need to manually enter SID before the first point in route and STAR after the last point. Then just click validate route and voila the program tells you if your route is plausible or not.

Marko Lisica

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How come, that SimBrief is able to verify your route WITH SID and STARS, but isn't able to create one with them? Just curious ..

 

Christian Jensen

Edited by Grumstolen

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That is a good question. Really hope someone will give answer to that. But I think that Simbrief can validate everything connected because internaly have installed FMS with all the SIDs and STARs relevant to particular route and runway. I also hope that Simbrief implement the option for full route planing with all the SIDs and STARs in route.

Regards

Marko Lisica

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From what I have read, it's from 2012. Am I wrong?

That is when the charts were printed. At the top of each chart in white letters on a black background it states "Licensed to SMA. Printed on 12 July 2012. Notice: Printed from an expire Revision. Disc 12-2012."

 

 

 

 

But now flying would be very much possible even without charts.

Surely, you jest.

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That is when the charts were printed. At the top of each chart in white letters on a black background it states "Licensed to SMA. Printed on 12 July 2012. Notice: Printed from an expire Revision. Disc 12-2012."

 

How do you know they are 7 years old then? Just a question, so that I will be able to detect the date of charts. 

 

Regards 

Christian Jensen

Edited by Grumstolen

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How do you know they are 7 years old then? Just a question, so that I will be able to detect the date of charts. 

 

Regards 

Christian Jensen

Christian

 

When I clicked on the link you provided in post #1 the first chart I came to was 10-1P Airport Briefing text which was dated 21 Nov 2008. The earliest chart I saw was 10-1VA dated 20 Apr 2005 and the latest was 10-1P7 dated 16 Sep 11. Also the last copyright date I saw was 2011. I can't say with any certainty they are 7 years old. I could have easily said they were 10 years old or 4 years old.

 

You could say these pages are only text and not really charts. However, they are as important as SIDS, STARS, and Approach charts because these text files are the rules and regulation of the airport and contain information concerning Arrival and Departure procedures, runway assignments, noise abatement, taxi instructions, etc.

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Oh, I can see that now. Well, I might never go into those parts of Flight Simming as that would take way to much time to really get into. But again, thanks for the replies. I will be taking my PMDG to the skies very soon, and thats because of you guys' answers and help, so thank you again! 

 

Christian Jensen

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