Hello all, 

 

I would like your advice on which PC spec you would suggest to use for the use of P3D V3.1.

 

Option 1:

Tower/Case: ENTHOO EVOLV ATX (Aluminum (3mm) Exterior, Steel Chassis) 
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-Z97x-UD5H SLI Ready Motherboard
Processor: Intel i7 4790k Devils Canyon Quad Core 
Cooling: Kuhler H2o 620 water cooler 
Memory: 16GB DDR3 
SSD: 480GB
Graphics Card: nVidia GTX 980 Ti 6GB PCI-E (EVGA)
Power Supply: Corsair 650w power supply 
Windows 10 Pro 

 

Option 2:

Case:RAZOR NZXT. H440 Special Edition with 7 fans (4 case fans, 1 CPU, 1 GPU, 1 PSU) 

Motherboard: MSI Z170A Gaming M5 NVIDIA SLI/AMD CROSSFIRE 
CPU: Intel i7 6700K RETAIL VERSION(3 year warranty) (Unlocked, Overclockable) @ 4.0Ghz and boost to 4.2, potential overclocking up to 4.4-4.8 
CPU Cooler: Corsair H55 Hydro/Water Cooler 
GPU: GTX 980 Ti Gigabyte Windforce 6GB
RAM: 16 GB (4x4GB) DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 2666MHz 

SSD: 480GB
P.S.U (Power Supply): EVGA 750 Watt GQ Gold Hybrid Modular ATX 

Windows 10 Pro 

 

Option 3:

GPU: MSI GTX 980Ti 

CPU: i7 4790k 

CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i GTX 

Motherboard: MSI Z97 GAMING 9 

Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro Series 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1866Mhz CL9 XMP Performance

PC Case: Cooler Master Storm Stryker- White

PSU: EVGA 750W SuperNOVA 750 G2 80 Plus Gold Power Supply

Windows 10

 

I know that there are a lot of crossovers. The main differences are the CPU and GPU brand.

 

I would use UK2000, Orbx, REX, Aerosoft Airbus, PMDG etc...

 

Greatly appreciate your input.

Thanks.

Either one is pretty great, but the Skylake system would be the way to go.

My vote goes to Skylake too. In fact that's the direction I've just gone. New platform, not just about performance, lots of other advantages too.
 
Several here on Avsim have gone the Skylake direction and been very happy.
 
And in regard to "Option 2"...


Motherboard: MSI Z170A Gaming M5 NVIDIA SLI/AMD CROSSFIRE


Seems like a solid board. I'm an Asus fan though, and for the price of the board above you can get an Asus ROG Maximus VIII Ranger. Plenty of other Asus boards around that price too. But you may favor MSI, so that's of course your choice.

 

 

CPU Cooler: Corsair H55 Hydro/Water Cooler

 

Not the best cooler around. A reasonable cooler. Better options are of course available. Depends as well if you're okay with AIO coolers. I prefer the NH-D15S. No pump to fail after a few years, very quiet and zero chance of leaks. Water or air is of course a personal choice only you can make.

 

 

GPU: GTX 980 Ti Gigabyte Windforce 6GB

 

I'm an EVGA fan but according to the reviews the Windforce is a great card.
 

 

RAM: 16 GB (4x4GB) DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 2666MHz

 

Better to go for Skylake specific RAM. Namely GSkill Ripjaw V or Trident Z. 3200 MHz. 

 

 

P.S.U (Power Supply): EVGA 750 Watt GQ Gold Hybrid Modular ATX
 

Single rail, and I prefer multi-rail, lower OCP trip point per rail. EVGA 750 is a quality PSU though.

 

Hybrid is fine. In a hybrid design some of the cable are hard wired. Which is okay as they tend to be the ones we all require anyway.

 

Gold efficiency is also fine. Anything more efficient makes very little difference to your electricity bill. You would have replaced your PC by the time a higher efficiency PSU paid for the extra cost.

RAM: 16 GB (4x4GB) DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 2666MHz

 

Better to go for Skylake specific RAM. Namely GSkill Ripjaw V or Trident Z. 3200 MHz.

 

Any dual channel DDR4 RAM is effectively Skylake specific. Also, stick with the 2666MHz RAM. In the latest copy of Custom PC magazine they build a Skylake computer and say about RAM "Speed-wise, 2666MHz is the current DDR4 sweet spot – you see diminishing returns and increasing premiums for higher frequencies".

 

I would go for option 2 but with the Enthoo case and the Corsair H100i GTX cooler. Without getting into the argument about which is more efficient, the main problem with decent air coolers is that you have a very heavy weight hanging off the front of your motherboard. Plus, it's easier to fit things (RAM in particular) around a water cooling CPU block.

Any dual channel DDR4 RAM is effectively Skylake specific.

 

Well yes, other kits will work. However, Trident Z and Ripjaw V  have been specifically designed, validated and tested to be optimal for Skylake. GSkill are using the highest end Samsung memory chips. That's what I mean when I say "Skylake specific".. specially tested and validated to be optimal for Skylake.

 

 

lso, stick with the 2666MHz RAM. In the latest copy of Custom PC magazine they build a Skylake computer and say about RAM "Speed-wise, 2666MHz is the current DDR4 sweet spot – you see diminishing returns and increasing premiums for higher frequencies".

 

 

"Latest Custom PC indeed". I read it my self, but don't regard their comments as gospel. "Westman" here on Avsim has done extensive testing and has commented in the past how the 3200 MHz modules are the way to go. I should mention, that he has a level of expertise and contacts in the industry that surpass many including Custom PC.

 

As for cost. My Ripjaw V kit was relatively cheap, £102 to be precise. The 2666 MHz kit is £95. You wont get many quality 16GB kits for much less.

 

 

the main problem with decent air coolers is that you have a very heavy weight hanging off the front of your motherboard.

 

 

Utter nonsense I'm afraid! For example, Noctua's SecuFirm 2 mounting system is top notch. Designed for the purpose.

 

My NH-D14 has been on three different PC's, and not the slightest issue. In fact when I first bought it I designed a support bracket, thinking as you do of the weight, as soon as I mounted it I realized it wasn't an issue at all.

 

Noctua aren't idiots. The D14/15 hasn't been popular for nothing, it works, and without catastrophically destroying anyone's motherboard.

 

The only issue that could occur is if some idiot decides to drag his PC around to Lan parties without a care in the world. Or ships his PC half way across the country with cooler attached.

 

From Noctua...

 

 

Is the high weight dangerous for the CPU or socket? No. Noctua coolers possess an extremely reliable SecuFirm™ mounting system. Thanks to the screw connection with the backplate on the rear side of the motherboard, the exceedance of the weight recommendations by Intel and AMD common among high-end coolers is completely unobjectionable.

 

http://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-cooler-retail/nh-d14.html?faq=1

 

 

Plus, it's easier to fit things (RAM in particular)

 

 

 

RAM was an issue if super tall gimmicky heat spreaders were fitted.The NH-D15S has overcome that problem.

"Latest Custom PC indeed". I read it my self, but don't regard their comments as gospel. "Westman" here on Avsim has done extensive testing and has commented in the past how the 3200 MHz modules are the way to go. I should mention, that he has a level of expertise and contacts in the industry that surpass many including Custom PC.

 

I don't take their comments as being gospel. I do research and then draw my conclusions. I haven't seen any of Westman's tests but take a look at http://www.legitreviews.com/ddr4-memory-scaling-intel-z170-finding-the-best-ddr4-memory-kit-speed_170340/4 and the page after that for some benchmarks of different speeds of DDR4 RAM running in the same Skylake system. Whilst the memory bandwidth increases with increasing RAM frequency, this appears to make very little difference to gaming in the real world. On their conclusions page they give the same advice as Custom PC - "Our advice for gamers and enthusiasts would be to get at least a DDR4-2666 kit as that is the sweet spot this very second when it comes to price versus performance!". Are they wrong as well? You can pick up 16Gb of 2666MHz Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM for £79 which would save you over £20 on the 3200MHz modules - not a huge amount but money that could perhaps be better spent elsewhere.

 

 

 

Utter nonsense I'm afraid! For example, Noctua's SecuFirm 2 mounting system is top notch. Designed for the purpose.

 

My NH-D14 has been on three different PC's, and not the slightest issue. In fact when I first bought it I designed a support bracket, thinking as you do of the weight, as soon as I mounted it I realized it wasn't an issue at all.

 

Not utter nonesense at all! In the middle of last year my No 2 home built, air-cooled PC stopped working. After checking everything I could think of to sort it out, I had it laid on its side rather than standing it up for a final check and it booted normally. When I stood it upright it stopped. I found that by supporting the CPU cooler slightly I could get it to boot. I'm not certain whether the failure was caused by the air cooler or just highlighted by it but the weight of the cooler was definitely stopping the system running. My primary system has a Corsair AIO water cooler and that's what I'll be using from now on. It has the same 5 year warranty as the Noctua so they obviously don't feel that their product has a short lifespan.

 

Thanks for the update on the NH-D15S - a clever piece of re-engineering which acknowledges the problem that the original NH-D15 had with some memory modules.

Asus motherboard all the way  :wink:

Option 2 looks great to me.

I don't take their comments as being gospel. I do research and then draw my conclusions. I haven't seen any of Westman's tests but take a look at http://www.legitreviews.com/ddr4-memory-scaling-intel-z170-finding-the-best-ddr4-memory-kit-speed_170340/4 and the page after that for some benchmarks of different speeds of DDR4 RAM running in the same Skylake system. Whilst the memory bandwidth increases with increasing RAM frequency, this appears to make very little difference to gaming in the real world. On their conclusions page they give the same advice as Custom PC - "Our advice for gamers and enthusiasts would be to get at least a DDR4-2666 kit as that is the sweet spot this very second when it comes to price versus performance!". Are they wrong as well? You can pick up 16Gb of 2666MHz Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM for £79 which would save you over £20 on the 3200MHz modules - not a huge amount but money that could perhaps be better spent elsewhere.

 

 

You've forgotten something vital... we are dealing with flight simulator. And flight sim is CPU bound. Thus the results in the "games" you highlight are less relevant. "Saab340" here on Avsim demonstrated with his tests, that RAM speed impacts performance in FSX because we are CPU limited. RAM and the CPU work very closely together in flight sim, thus slower ram essentially keeps the CPU waiting longer for data, wasting CPU cycles. That's not a problem in the games you refer to above as it's normally the graphics card that's the bottleneck.

 

The above doesn't make a huge difference but hey... we are talking about a mere 20 quid. No one would regard that as excessive.

 

I suggest you do a search for Saab340's research.

 

Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM for £79 which would save you over £20 on the 3200MHz modules - not a huge amount but money that could perhaps be better spent elsewhere.

 

 

No, £20 is NOT a huge amount, it's a pittance. I spent that X2 at Nando's yesterday. And no, such a minuscule sum wouldn't be better spent elsewhere. Better to spend it on GSkill's highest end Samsung chips and an increase in RAM frequency for a mere 20 quid that might well be valuable in flight sim! Why not, in terms of cost it's bugger all!

 

Not utter nonesense at all! In the middle of last year my No 2 home built, air-cooled PC stopped working. After checking everything I could think of to sort it out, I had it laid on its side rather than standing it up for a final check and it booted normally. When I stood it upright it stopped. I found that by supporting the CPU cooler slightly I could get it to boot. I'm not certain whether the failure was caused by the air cooler or just highlighted by it but the weight of the cooler was definitely stopping the system running. My primary system has a Corsair AIO water cooler and that's what I'll be using from now on. It has the same 5 year warranty as the Noctua so they obviously don't feel that their product has a short lifespan.

 

 

What was the cooler... not the NH-D14/15 I was referring to?

 

 

Four possibilities here... 1) you are telling fibs! 2) you mounted the cooler incorrectly 3) your hypothesis was wrong, it wasn't the cooler. 4) It was a crap cooler, not a Noctua NH-D14/15

 

My choice of the former would be possibility 1) or 4)

 

 

The other problem of course is that you said "decent air coolers". Not specific at all. I'm referring to the best, namely the NH-D15! For you to lump all "decent air coolers" into one motherboard killing category is of course illogical. 

 

And in regard to my favored air cooler, the NH-D15, you won't find anything definitive anywhere on the internet regarding it's motherboard killing characteristics in normal use.

 

The only big air cooler I recall having this issue was an old model Thermalright. The mounting mechanism was nothing like the quality if SecuFirm 2.

 

 My primary system has a Corsair AIO water cooler and that's what I'll be using from now on. It has the same 5 year warranty as the Noctua so they obviously don't feel that their product has a short lifespan.

 

 

 That explains it then, you're an AIO water cooler fan. As I said to the OP, only he can decide if an AIO is for him. So I don't mean to make this an air v water debate. Both have their merits. And nice 5 year warranty from Corsair... now try to claim the dosh for a damaged motherboard and graphics card when it leaks! I've heard the process can be lengthy and traumatic. 

 

Sorry to rant on, but it's wrong for you to potentially put the OPoff a top-notch, pretty much legendary air cooler with with such generalized, unsubstantiated "killer cooler" claims. The weight of evidence is against you.

 

If the OP prefers the aesthetics of an AIO, so be it, I'm with him all the way.If the OP isn't at all concerned about leaks or eventual pump failure, so be it, I'm with him all the way. I almost bought a H110 for my Skylake build. But the motherboard killing cooler myth must be challenged. Doesn't happen with the best!

 

Apologies to the OP for side tracking his thread. But it's important he ha s the facts!

Now I understand. I didn't realise that you were always correct (and prone to exagerations - see below) and that anyone who had a different opinion was clearly either just plain wrong or, worst still, lying.

 

If you had actually read the article from the link you would have seen that their conclusions were not just based on game performance. I quote:

 

"Our benchmarks show that the memory bandwidth increased, but there wasn’t a tangible improvement in system performance with real applications. We ran other applications and game titles when we tested this memory kit and you mostly ended up with flat performance charts like you saw in Handbrake or any of the game titles that we tested today."

 

 

 

"Saab340" here on Avsim demonstrated with his tests, that RAM speed impacts performance in FSX because we are CPU limited.

 

The only post that I can find from Saab340 relating to performance is his informative post about using different affinity mask settings and hyperthreading rather than anything specifically about RAM speeds (http://www.avsim.com/topic/377105-texture-loading-ssd-vs-hdd/). If there are others, the Avsim search function didn't find them for me.

 

 

 

 

Four possibilities here... 1) you are telling fibs! 2) you mounted the cooler incorrectly 3) your hypothesis was wrong, it wasn't the cooler. 4) It was a crap cooler, not a Noctua NH-D14/15

My choice of the former would be possibility 1) or 4)

 

The other problem of course is that you said "decent air coolers". Not specific at all. I'm referring to the best, namely the NH-D15! For you to lump all "decent air coolers" into one motherboard killing category is of course illogical.

 

 

 

Sorry to rant on, but it's wrong for you to potentially put the OPoff a top-notch, pretty much legendary air cooler with with such generalized, unsubstantiated "killer cooler" claims. The weight of evidence is against you.

 

Firstly, I resent being called a liar. The most that you can justifiably say is that you haven't heard of it happening before. There's a first time for everything (if this was, indeed, the first time).

 

In my original post I said "the main problem with decent air coolers is that you have a very heavy weight hanging off the front of your motherboard." This is a fact, not my opinion (well over 1kg in some cases). How have you jumped to the conclusion that I specifically mean the NH-D15 - where did I say that?

 

With regard to the problems with my PC, I simply related my own experiences which, whilst not agreeing with yours, doesn't make them any less valid. Where did I call my air cooler a "motherboard killer" or a "killer cooler"? Your words not mine. Please read what I wrote without being emotive - "I'm not certain whether the failure was caused by the air cooler or just highlighted by it but the weight of the cooler was definitely stopping the system running." It's not a wild accusation, it's just a simple statement of the facts. My experience may have been the exception rather than the rule but that didn't stop it happening. I wasn't trying to put the OP off the Noctua air cooler any more than you were trying to put him off AIO coolers by talking about pump failures and leaks. They both have their pros and cons.

 

 

I've always found Avsim to be a friendly, helpful and informative place where everyone's opinions (especially when backed up by evidence) and personal experiences are equally valid. Please don't change that for me with unsubstantiated accusations. For the OP, I'm sorry that this has been dragged off-topic but I'm not prepared to be called a liar without responding.

Topic unfortunately has gone South and is now locked.