CJ2 First Impressions

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

What do you mean by "watch your speeds?"  In the real plane, in a climb configuration, the moment you press FLC (assuming AP is engaged), the aircraft will change pitch to meet your speed (probably it won't change pitch because you already trimmed for a certain speed and FLC will sync).  The airplane's power levers are set by you as there is no A/T.  If you're climbing out at 250 KIAS, the aircraft might pitch up at 3000 fpm.  If you increase the FLC speed to say 270 KIAS, the aircraft will gradually pitch down a little to increase speed.  Once at 270 kias, the aircraft will likely pitch up a little and continue climbing to the altitude dialed in.  At 270 KIAS/FLC the AP might only command 2000 fpm climb rate.  These are just example speeds... I don't own the acft nor do I have a CJ2/M2 manual.  I'm guessing climb speed is around 200-250 kias.

 

It blows by 250 knots and the warnings go off - maybe i am missing something here - I know there is no auto throttle that means its manual right - you are physically moving the throttles no other way to control it which means to me that you manually have to move your throttles to maintain desired speed - correct ?

 

 

Hi Rich, 

 

All of them! I use SimLauncherX and generally preload all information (fuel, passengers, flight plan, etc) and when I start pretty much *any* aircraft, be it Carenado or otherwise, the flight plan is loaded: when I turn on the GPS I see the "magenta line". If I load a flight plan from the simulator (P3D V3.2 and everything that came before it, including FSX) I get a pre-loaded *.pln file to provide a flight plan.

 

Did not know that - it will put the flight plan right into the carenado fms - thats news to me 

[ryanbatc 12,857]

It blows by 250 knots and the warnings go off - maybe i am missing something here - I know there is no auto throttle that means its manual right - you are physically moving the throttles no other way to control it which means to me that you manually have to move your throttles to maintain desired speed - correct ?

 

 

 

 

There is no autothrottle correct, but if you press FLC and your airspeed is 250 kias when you press it, the aircraft should immediately climb out to the altitude dialed in.  Say you set 15,000 ft with the dial.  You're at 7000 and climbing.  You set climb power manually (say 94% N1 etc), pitch up for 250 kias, then press FLC then AP right after.  The aircraft should not change speed at all... it should only change pitch to maintain 250 kias while climbout out at xxxx vertical speed.  Upon reaching 15,000 ft the aircraft should level off and at that point you need to change the power setting (yes manually move the power levers back) to avoid exceeding vmo/mmo.

 

Also note...pretend you set your power levers for climb power, FLC synced at 250 kias....and you never touched your power levers again... the aircraft would eventually pitch down to level because there would not be sufficient thrust to maintain 250kias in a climb....  you'd need to gradually bump up the power levers in the climb of course.

 

It's not a set it and forget it, but it is fairly stall proof (almost)...which is why smaller aircraft now have an IAS mode (similar to FLC).  The Cirrus has an IAS mode... you climb out at 120 KIAS and the AP will command 1000 fpm climbout...you'd continue to add power/lean mixture as you climb to maintain 120 KIAS.

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

There is no autothrottle correct, but if you press FLC and your airspeed is 250 kias when you press it, the aircraft should immediately climb out to the altitude dialed in.  Say you set 15,000 ft with the dial.  You're at 7000 and climbing.  You set climb power manually (say 94% N1 etc), pitch up for 250 kias, then press FLC then AP right after.  The aircraft should not change speed at all... it should only change pitch to maintain 250 kias while climbout out at xxxx vertical speed.  Upon reaching 15,000 ft the aircraft should level off and at that point you need to change the power setting (yes manually move the power levers back) to avoid exceeding vmo/mmo

 

Thought I did that - and it was going to fast - have to revisit it Ryan - thanks

[Mark Jackson 0]

At what weight?  Most flightsim planes load overweight.  There probably are performance tables somewhere - that's the one thing I like about C.

I checked that, it was about 12,000 lbs.  Per the POH table supposed to make 40,000 feet in 25 minutes burning 540 lbs, then cruise 390 knots burning 904 lbs/hr.  I finally made it to 360 it was burning 450 lbs per hour and slowing thru 150 kts.

[ryanbatc 12,857]

Hmmm using ASN or wx injector?  Sometimes the upper level temps are way too high... I've seen that in OPUS FSI before.

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

Hmmm using ASN or wx injector?  Sometimes the upper level temps are way too high... I've seen that in OPUS FSI before.

 

Not at the time no injected weather - I only used it for 30 minutes as it came out late last night but first observations it was working better than hawker for sure - maybe because I am use to using saitek panel to set speeds was throwing me off

[xender 459]

What about the FLC? Does it work as it should? (As described by Ryan)?

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

What about the FLC? Does it work as it should? (As described by Ryan)?

 

I think it does but will have to confirm it

[PJAMES 7]

you guys are funny, not real pilots, but learning to pretty close how the real FLCH mode works..not bad.... however, low and behold even the corporate jets I fly, FLCH is GREAT below 18,000 above that it gets kinda sloppy, "hunts" for the right pitch / speed, and often is so variable it would make passengers queasy... usually I'll use manual VS mode at high altitude rather than let FLCH go all the way up to altitude... 40,000 or more where I go... it would be to wobbly.... however, if I am busy "reading" or not looking too closely at the gauges, I will sometimes use FLCH just so my mind doesn't stray too far off the vs setting, A high VS down low like 3000 to 5000 fpm in a fast jet would be deadly to set and hold up high... most jets, even powerful up at high 30s... low 40s will not climb more than 1000 fpm heavy and often I have to climb to 45,000 at only 300 fpm, but Ill do that at M.75 however.

[ramprat 8]

 

you guys are funny, not real pilots, but learning to pretty close how the real FLCH mode works..not bad.... however, low and behold even the corporate jets I fly, FLCH is GREAT below 18,000 above that it gets kinda sloppy, "hunts" for the right pitch / speed, and often is so variable it would make passengers queasy... usually I'll use manual VS mode at high altitude rather than let FLCH go all the way up to altitude... 40,000 or more where I go... it would be to wobbly.... however, if I am busy "reading" or not looking too closely at the gauges, I will sometimes use FLCH just so my mind doesn't stray too far off the vs setting, A high VS down low like 3000 to 5000 fpm in a fast jet would be deadly to set and hold up high... most jets, even powerful up at high 30s... low 40s will not climb more than 1000 fpm heavy and often I have to climb to 45,000 at only 300 fpm, but Ill do that at M.75 however.

 

Thanks for your contribution Peter. 

 

I remember you from years ago.  I don't recall which forum, but we used to converse about RW flying.  That was before you got your first professional pilot job I think.  You were pretty fascinated with jets back then.  I'm glad to see you found success in your chosen career.  Are you still flying the Beechjet? 

 

And, it's good to see you are still active in our little alternate reality.

 

Take care,

 

Bill

[jeansy 341]

Thanks for the heads up

[Mark Jackson 0]

Hmmm using ASN or wx injector?  Sometimes the upper level temps are way too high... I've seen that in OPUS FSI before.

 

 

I checked that, it was about 12,000 lbs.  Per the POH table supposed to make 40,000 feet in 25 minutes burning 540 lbs, then cruise 390 knots burning 904 lbs/hr.  I finally made it to 360 it was burning 450 lbs per hour and slowing thru 150 kts.

 

It was within a few degrees of ISA according to the PFD.  This seems to be a problem with all the light jets.  Flight1's mustang is a lot better but doesn't mirror the real world performance.

 

Going to check all the physical settings in the config file tonight.

[Jakub Compel 8]

please GTN 750 mod for this aircraft  I am also willing to pay extra

[Caribpilot 56]

Are the FMA indications on the PFD correct? For example, when FLC is selected, do you see the ALTS indication in white showing that ALTS is armed?

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

you guys are funny, not real pilots, but learning to pretty close how the real FLCH mode works..not bad.... however, low and behold even the corporate jets I fly, FLCH is GREAT below 18,000 above that it gets kinda sloppy, "hunts" for the right pitch / speed, and often is so variable it would make passengers queasy... usually I'll use manual VS mode at high altitude rather than let FLCH go all the way up to altitude... 40,000 or more where I go... it would be to wobbly.... however, if I am busy "reading" or not looking too closely at the gauges, I will sometimes use FLCH just so my mind doesn't stray too far off the vs setting, A high VS down low like 3000 to 5000 fpm in a fast jet would be deadly to set and hold up high... most jets, even powerful up at high 30s... low 40s will not climb more than 1000 fpm heavy and often I have to climb to 45,000 at only 300 fpm, but Ill do that at M.75 however.

 

Yes this is what I have been noticing on CJ2 - VS works great not FLC - it seems to get wonky if I use FLC - no expert here but was perfect using VS to ascend or descend to an altitude - what I mean is just adjust VS up or down and the aircraft will level off at desired altitude - no expert here but does work and a lot less things to think about - this is with a loaded fms plan

 

Also a little post at their facebook page by a person who purchased it

 

========================================================

 

She climbs beautifully and responds well after takeoff with a climb of 2500 ft/m and will hold that while accelerating at 98% throttle to 12,000 ft ASL. Controls in slow flight feel very nice and smooth, and you can feel the parasite drag when using a yoke.

 

If you liked the flight feeling of the S550 Citation II you will love this plane as well. The engines will push 100.2% N1 just like they should UNLIKE THE HAWKER 850XP WHICH STILL NEEDS TO BE FIXED!

 

The FMS in this plane is more refined however it WILL NOT save flightplans, you will need to program it each time. I did not test out the FLCH system, however the Autopilot did well on an ILS approach to Rwy 01L into KTPA. 

 

The sounds are LOUD, and I do mean LOUD, good lord. Not sure if it really is that loud in RL as I have never set foot in a Cessna CJ2, just be forewarned. As for the quality of the sound, it is clear and crisp, especially the audible warnings and button clicks.

 

The PL21 system feels almost identical to the H850XP, and framerates were acceptable, it seemed to be well polished. As for people stating that they could not get the curtain to pull back for the cabin/cockpit transition its click spot is the metal bar running across the top of the curtain.

 

I hope this helps people on their decision to either purchase or skip this product.

please GTN 750 mod for this aircraft  I am also willing to pay extra

 

Bert has declined my offer for this aircraft and just doesnt have the time to retro fit the GTN so that may be a long wait as I am not aware of anyone else doing this