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[fs4fun 366]

 

 

Okay, how do you parse a page title on their web site that says "Dovetail Games Presents the Flight Simulators of the Future" http://www.dovetailg...s-of-the-future

 

Agree to disagree I guess. I don't see anything in their marketing material that looks all that egregious or overblown, or implies that it's going to better than any other sim on day one. In any case plain common sense says that it will not be.

[torium 207]

Frankly, Although I wish DTG good luck, its all smoke a mirrors and marketing. I suspect it will go the way of MSFight sooner rather than later. But either way it will never catch up with Prepar3D or X-Plane. even if DTG where in it for more than just the money :-P

 

Then DTG Flight Simulator is not for you.

 

Martin has previously given his advice, quote:

 

"If you want to play with your existing collection then play FSX: SE or your flight sim of choice. DTG Flight Simulator is all about the next generation of simulation and add-ons. It is not focused on what currently is, it is focused on what comes next.

 

We are not interested in supporting the current generation of flight simulation add-ons and services with the next sim.  

We are interested in seeing what people can do with a next generation flight sim. We want to see what can be, rather than just repeating the cycle of what is. 

 

DTG Flight School and DTG Flight Sim use the same core game engine as FSX. We have heavily modified and updated that game engine to make these titles.

 

Just like FSX and P3D, DTG Flight Simulator will act as a core for people to expand upon as they wish. Like any core sim there will be a world with a set of rules which sets out how the game is played and how things interact in that world. For example, weather, physics, the ATC and so forth.

 

The platform will be open to third party developers, and they are free to use the technology and produce whatever add-on content they wish. Again, just like FSX and other flight simulators. - Martin"

 

I'm guessing that DTG FS is the next big platform for flight simulators.  :smile:

[arsenal82 120]

The platform will be open to third party developers, and they are free to use the technology and produce whatever add-on content they wish. Again, just like FSX and other flight simulators. - Martin"

 

if it is just like FSX and other flight simulators

 

the other simulators have Sdk and those who work with the sdk are also free to do what they like with the end product - either sell it or release as freeware - I wonder if Martin know about that (with all respect for him).

 

Let's see if DTG will stick to their words  ' are free to use the technology and produce whatever add-on content they wish. Again, just like FSX and other flight simulators'

 

or is going to be pie in the sky statement ! without exactly knowing what can be done with the 'other simulators SDK'.

 

To be honest i will take any statement with a pinch of salt !

[TLight 20]

domae001 -

Didn't see much water in that video

 

I might have the wrong end of the stick then, I was looking at the video posted by Avidean (#357), the 100% vanilla p3d 2.4.

Should say, I'm not a P3D user due to the weird license, I do like the look of it though.

[sightseer 895]

Rob - I don't care if the DTG splash screen is pre rendered or a photograph. It makes no difference to me and no one needs a super computer to have graphics that mimic that.

 

FSX had more cloud lighting capabilities than does P3D3.2. the shaders were changed dramatically with v2.3 probably to free up resources for other shadow elements. There are things that were possible in FSX that no longer are and if the developers of any sim would care enough to put back that part of reality then it would not be difficult to have a flying environment that was as nice looking as the DTG splash screen.

 

heck its almost possible with P3d3.2. Im not talking about being exact. I am talking about not having greenish black fair weather cumulus as a standard. Im very sure that when you look outside on an average day you do not see darkish black clouds everywhere. I know I don't. and that's why I referenced the splash screen in the first place.

 

that is not an unachievable goal. I don't need a supercomputer to get back what I once had.

[scotchegg 4,207]

 

 

Look I am sure there are plenty off newbie interested parties here who might not be that familiar with their options. I'll make sure they are aware of just how inferior Flight School appears to be compared to already older version of P3D, so they can make an informed decision about their purchase.

 

Well thank you for your concern for the newbies. I'll make sure my 7-year old daughter is aware that, while giggling over ploughing her Piper into a mountainside again (while subconsciously learning to better coordinate hands, feet, visual input etc. etc.) she could have applied for a free, online degree course so that she could beat the EULA roulette of a fully-featured platform offered by the world's largest defence contractor, in turn allowing her to take full advantage of things like detailed global winds aloft coverage and study-level airliner sims.

 

I just can't escape the feeling that, despite weeks of discussing it, you still haven't quite got what Flight School is all about. Anyway, I hope you enjoy hanging around forums to lobby for your preferred platform, and welcome newcomers to the community by telling them how stupid they were for choosing a $15 application when they could have got so much more if they'd only talked to you first.

[TLight 20]

New video posted by Reticule.

 

Unfortunately, the beginning's cut so we can't make out the build number, this is either the original beta or something more recent. Either way, the atmospheric scattering in this video is the best we've seen so far. This is really nice...

 

[EDIT] I've watched it again, when I said 'really nice' I think I'm underselling it. This looks terrific!

 

[Guest]

 

 

FSX had more cloud lighting capabilities than does P3D3.2.

 

Almost certain FSX doesn't, the shaders in P3D are far more advanced than those of FSX ... can you provide a screenshot showing the difference? 

 

Cheers, Rob.

[jcomm 5,961]

New video posted by Reticule.

 

Unfortunately, the beginning's cut so we can't make out the build number, this is either the original beta or something more recent. Either way, the atmospheric scattering in this video is the best we've seen so far. This is really nice...

 

[EDIT] I've watched it again, when I said 'really nice' I think I'm underselling it. This looks terrific!

 

Great Video!  My disk is SO FREE for DTG Flight School and upcoming Flight SIm, that I have erased any remnants of XpX, FSX, P3D, and even DCS World !!!! Only IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad, and space for DTG Flight School, in which I profoundly believe to be a true success on day 1, and the success of the Future to come, maybe this year already, maybe early next, when they release their Flight Simulator.

 

Even PSX guys... even PSX got wipped !!!! The return of the UNINSTALLER!!! 

 

P.S.: Space also required for Aerofly FS v2, which I have been at a second of buying when the credit card company failled to authorize my transaction... bummer.....

 

I will calmly wait for good GA and airliners to arrive to this new platform, and into Aerofly FS too... After all, the spirit is the same that filled my mind when I started playing MS FLIGHT in 2011, and completely fell IN LOVE with it. I still remember how much I wanted it to succeed, and how much I liked their approach of controlled offer... DTG looks like the perfect successor!

[torium 207]

if it is just like FSX and other flight simulators

 

the other simulators have Sdk and those who work with the sdk are also free to do what they like with the end product - either sell it or release as freeware - I wonder if Martin know about that (with all respect for him).

 

 

Trust or not trust - here is what Martin said earlier, quote:

 

"Flight simulation would be nothing without all the hard work of third party developers, be them big companies or bedroom coders. 

 

There are people who are obviously creating content as a living or run companies around add-on production, Orbox A2A and so forth. Then there are people who are creating liveries or making things as an expansion of their flight sim experience. Most of which gets released as freeware or community content. 

 

Over the past 2 years, we have made our intentions clear with respect to welcoming and working with developers, both big and small, on FSX: SE. We fully intend to continue those relationships and looking forward will be welcoming both existing and new developers to the Dovetail Games Flight Simulator platform. 

 

We will provide developers with all the tools, documentation and support they need to create great new content for this new platform and will be working closely with them during that process.

 

For us, releasing DTG Flight Simulator is just the beginning. All of the really hard works comes afterwards once you and developers get your hands on it.  - Martin"

 

I hope of course that this is true. Why should it not?  :smile:

[sightseer 895]

Almost certain FSX doesn't, the shaders in P3D are far more advanced than those of FSX ... can you provide a screenshot showing the difference? 

 

Cheers, Rob.

No, Rob, I can't. I don't have FSX on my machine...only P3Dv3.2.

 

It is discouraging that you have never noticed any of the shader code changes that LM keeps making. As a sky and cloud designer, I have noticed the changes a lot.

 

It isn't just the shaders. P3D can do things that FSX never could but FSX can do things that P3D cannot. It comes down to what was possible in all of the versions from FSX thru P3Dv2.2. It was possible to adjust the amount and color of shadow in the clouds themselves using the sky texture. This is no longer possible in P3D. It was possible to create more dynamic looking sunset clouds in FSX. You could have both a heavy blue shadow and a bright orange or red or other color highlight. In P3D the clouds become very monochrome at sunset. The highlights and shadows seem to come towards each other - highlights get darker and flatter and shadows get brighter and flatter (less color overall).

 

In all version from FSX thru P3D2.2, the shadows that were in the clouds came from the sky texture and a sky designer could adjust those shadows throughout the day and they would noticeably track the sun.

 

P3Dv2.3 changed all that. It took away the 99% of the sky textures influence and control over the in cloud shadows that once tracked the sun. After that point, the only way to get shadows in the clouds themselves was to put them into the cloud textures and those shadows would not track the sun. they look great during the day but the shader code minimizes the difference between highlight and shadow at sunset.(and probably dawn but I haven't actually checked or studied dawn) (and when I say 'sunset' I mean literally the sunset texture time period. the time that the clouds should arguably be most colorful and dynamic is when they are the least dynamic).

 

Shadows in clouds exist due to light sources. (not all clouds have noticeable shadows during the day but that's due to cloud formation). The shadows in the clouds will change as the lighting changes. If a cloud has a blue shadow during the day then that shadow is not going to decrease because the sun moves. The part of the cloud that is in shadow will change as the sun lowers. During the day the cloud is hit by light from the top and if the cloud is dense enough it will block light from hitting the lower portions of the cloud and produce a shadow. As the sun moves, so does the shadowed part of the cloud. As the sun sets and shifts hue and intensity, the color hitting the face of the cloud will change (the highlight) but there still is light and the cloud hasn't necessarily changed, its just the sunlight that has changed - so the shadowed part of the cloud moves and tends to grow due to decreased light. If you spend time watching many many sunsets you will see that cloud shadows (shadows in clouds) generally remain a blueish color until all traces of light are gone. Clouds that would not have much of a shadow during the day will indeed fade to a blackish color sooner but those blue shadows are commonly there and if you are looking at the setting sun then you are looking at the shadowed side of the clouds.

 

Sunset clouds have, in general, both a highlight and a blueish shadowy part. This was possible in FSX thru P3D2.2. Its not nearly as possible in P3d since the changes that occurred in 2.3.

 

and that's the difference Im talking about. FSX had different and, in my opinion, more useful cloud lighting controls.

[Novation 534]

Can you be specific?

 

Sightseer had just covered it all above  :wink:  I admit it is one aspect, or maybe a few that roll in to the one, but for me and Sightseer above (others too) it is a noticeable and negative change. I have made my own cloud.fx shader that does add back in the sun tracking lighting to the clouds, along with a greater range of colours within.

 

Of course, overall P3D is far more sophisticated graphically, and I would not wish to go back to FSX now, but the fact is in some aspects it still does some things better. And being able to run at 4k and extreme setting has no bearing on it.

 

Anyway this is getting more than a little OT.

[Guest]

 

 

It is discouraging that you have never noticed any of the shader code changes that LM keeps making. As a sky and cloud designer, I have noticed the changes a lot.

 

 

 

I have made my own cloud.fx shader that does add back in the sun tracking lighting to the clouds, along with a greater range of colours within.

 

If you folks can PM me some screenshots of  FSX vs. P3D in regards to the cloud lighting that would help me  ... I can then bring this up to LM for their thoughts on proceed from there.  I did review many of my older FSX videos and I honestly don't see what you folks are suggesting?  Maybe my eye is just blind to it?  But whatever you can provide would be nice ... now is certainly a good time for it

 

Cheers, Rob.

[n4gix 4,949]

Many of you will be happy to know that's the last you'll hear from me on the subject LOL!

I sure hope so!

[Novation 534]

 

 

If you folks can PM me some screenshots of FSX vs. P3D

 

I'll do so when home and on my FS PC. All the work in the Realism Shader Pack is another example, not of FSX/FS v P3D etc, but how people are noticing how certain aspects of the base sim are lacking and doing something about.