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Johan_Dees

Approaches

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Thanks to Edetroit I am into FS9 ATC with approaches, and it works very nice!

 

However, it is confusing sometimes to choose the right one.

 

Is there a tool to extract the approaches to a file for a given airport ?

 

I can see them in ADE for example, but its a hassle to extract them that way.

 

Any help in either extracting or choosing the right one on the fly ?

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Thanks to Edetroit I am into FS9 ATC with approaches, and it works very nice!

 

Best thing of course is they are updatable.

 

 

 

However, it is confusing sometimes to choose the right one.

 

Why? ...is it because the approach is out of date.? Well sad to say they probably are. I write a new approach every time I fly.

 

 

 

Is there a tool to extract the approaches to a file for a given airport ?

 

I can see them in ADE for example, but its a hassle to extract them that way.

 

I used to write approaches separately to the afcad but it really is much easier and better to write them using ADE.

 

 

 

Any help in either extracting or choosing the right one on the fly ?

 

As I said if you do not write a new one and you are relying on the def approach database you will need charts from 2004 to know which one to fly.

If you are using up-to-date charts you really need to update your approaches. 

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I use old charts, some are newer.

But not really knowing what runway will be in use at the destination, weather can change, its a hassle.

I dont want to pause, kills immersion, and indeed not all are matching.

A viewer would be nice, to see what is available for FS9  ATC for a given runway before takeoff.

 

I am afraid I have to stick with ADE in preflight to see what FS9 ATC knows about.

Therefore a simple dump to an csv file, loadable in excel would be handy. Just lookup instead of using ADE.

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A viewer would be nice, to see what is available for FS9 ATC for a given runway before takeoff.

 

Flightsim Commander can do this with the download weather function. A cloud and wind arrow graphic appears over each airfield on the map, so you can see which runways will be in use for landing at each one.

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But not really knowing what runway will be in use at the destination, weather can change, its a hassle.

 

I use ASE for real weather generation. It is very easy to see the enroute and destination weather before takeoff.

 

I always know which runways will be in use and then also my preferred runway (as FSATC sometimes gives you options)    ....... and write my FS flight plan accordingly. 

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Ed, I read somwhere that AI do aproaches. Is that true as far as you know ?

If so, that would mean that following them to sequencing would be much better.

If not, then nothing changes..

 

 

hohoho.. merry christmas

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AI do approaches as seen in the ADE approach view. If no approach is mapped, then by default they will do a default approach of an arc ending at the airport threshold providing conditions are VMC. If conditions are IFR, then without any runway navaids they will not land as I recall.

 

FS ATC has a runway scoring system. Runway length, surface, navaids, winds, etc., contribute to the scoring of the runway. FS ATC allows for a tailwind component the amount depending on the aircraft design class (heavy, jetliner, turboprop, or prop).

 

Regarding using a weather application (I use ASE) be sure to refresh the ai at the completion of the weatherwriting. This will restart the AI and uppdate the ATIS so the AI will follow the current weather rather than the initial weather in your FS default flight.

 

If your flight planner and aircraft can use AIRAC files (navigation databases for the aircraft) then you can sync your flight plan with the terminal navigation database in the aircraft. A one off subscription (about US $10) from Aerosoft (NAVDATA PRO) or Navgraph's FMC data. For the single fee you can download as many formats as you need for your aircraft and flight planner.

 

Free FAA jurisdiction approach, departure, and airport diagrams can be found on http://flightaware.com/ . Enter your ICAO code and select Airport instead of All, then enter. Click the IFR chart tab. There you can download a single .pdf chart, a bundle within a .pdf for the type of charts, or all including the airport diagram. No registration required.

 

UK airport information can be had free without registration from http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php.html . Click on the AIP selection. Click on Aerodrome Information - Specific. Select the airport of interest. A list of charts will pop up. Right click on the chart title of interest and do a Save As to download the chart as a .pdf file.

 

European Union member country airport charts are available with a free registration to Euro Control information at:

http://ead-website.ead-it.com/publicuser/public/pu/login.jsp. After you activate your registration and login choose Enter Application.Choose PAMS Light [AIP].

 

A search window will fully open after a few seconds. Select Authority (Country). Select Authority Type (usually Civil). Select Language (EN) by default. Select the AIP type of Charts. Select a part type of AD. To bring up a single airport rather than all for the country, check the advanced button, then search. A new window will pop up. Enter the ICAO code prefixed and followed by the wildcard character * such as *LIRF*.

 

A list with several columns will appear.To the left of the chart title is the .pdf file name. Right click on that and use Save Link as to store the chart. Some airports will have multiple pages of columns. At the top of each list is a page navigator. Click on the correct arrows to advance retract the page number.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/owuz7p2ohx7y7st/fsb%20tips%20and%20update.pdf?dl=0 is an article I wrote based on the fsbuild flight planner. The methods will be similar to FSC or other planner you might use. It emphasizes syncing the route sent to your aircraft and ATC with the navigation database. There are suggestions for handling dynamic assignments of runways where there are more than one runway per approach by choosing a common entry exit waypoint to all runways and then bring up the appropriate approach on the FMC or other aircraft guidance for the proper IAP approach to the selected runway. Similar handling for departures.

 

Hope this clarifies some of your questions.

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Addendum:

 

Flightaware.com has real world flight routes good for a few days. One end must be an FAA airport. Just select the airport of interest. Click an arrival or departure flight of interest and a page with the filed route will appear along with other information. Choose one that has already arrived at destination for the most accurate data. Depending on your flight planner, with minor massaging of the "route string" you can copy and paste the route into your planner.

 

Here's a route from New Jersey KEWR to Chicago Midway KMDW Southwest 1150:

 

Flight data
Speed
Filed: 533 mph
Altitude
Filed: 40,000 ft
Distance
Actual: 718 mi (Planned: 738 mi/Direct: 710 mi)
Fuel Burn
1,900 gal / 12,000 lbs
Route

NEWEL J60 ASHEN BAGEL PANGG3

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Thanks to Edetroit I am into FS9 ATC with approaches, and it works very nice!
 
Could you elaborate on this? How can you choose an aporoach on FS9 Default ATC?

 

Thank you,

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But not really knowing what runway will be in use at the destination, weather can change, its a hassle.
I dont want to pause, kills immersion, and indeed not all are matching.

 

I found a really nifty app for my Iphone that answers these questions.  It is called Aviation Weather Route Planner by FlyGoo.  It provides metar, NOTAMS and Runway in use information for departure and destination airports, as well as on-route.  I find it very handy and so far it has matched up exactly with my real time Active Sky weather and FS9 ATC so I can plan well ahead for setting up my approach to the active runway.

 

Greg

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Ed, I read somwhere that AI do aproaches. Is that true as far as you know ?

 

Yes they do. But lets clarify. First here is a link to all you need to know about approach codes.

 

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/tutorial-approaches.14074/

 

AFAIK In FS9 AI will fly an ILS but not a transition (STAR). I believe in FSX they can even fly a flight plan but not in FS9.

 

AI can fly a curved approach a la IGS Rwy 13 at Kai Tak (Jim Vile wrote an approach for this). This shows that you CAN manipulate AI if you know what you are doing.

 

 

 


Could you elaborate on this? How can you choose an aporoach on FS9 Default ATC?

 

Juan, you have to understand this is not a simple question.

 

FS9 Default ATC is out of date by 12 years. This is fine if you are using 12 year old charts.

 

If you are great let's continue. You are flying into London Heathrow with real weather and LHR ATIS is saying Rwys 27 L/R are in use.

 

FS ATC says it will give you vectors for Rwy 27L. Firstly do you want to 27L or 27R?. Let's say you want 27R. So tell FS ATC you want Runway 27R. FSATC will then tell you "vectors for 27L side step to 27R"

 

You then select ILS Runway 27R approach  On doing this you should/will be offered a transition. Choose the transition that matches your STAR.

 

FSATC will then clear you for the Rwy 27R approach via your transition and NOT bother you again until YOU report establish on the localiser.

 

Note: If flying an FS flight plan make sure the transition is in it.

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My next video flight is a good example of FS ATC. I'm flying from RIGA (EVRA) to Amsterdam (EHAM)

Schiphol is a good example of a troublesome FS Airport. Firstly Rwy 18R/36L ....this runway was not built when FS9 was released.

So I have some nice EHAM scenery by Aerosoft/Simwings which includes Rwy18R/36L...... But like most pay ware scenery developers they think that you just want the scenery for screenshots. And that is probably what most simmers will do.
However the FS spotters out there might wonder why in IMC conditions no AI land at Rwy 18R.....well that is because no approach codes were written.

I have crosswind runway action at EHAM and had to write not only an ILS approach for Rwy 18R but also the transitions.

So in my next video you will see FSATC behaving perfectly. Clearing me for a RWY 18R ARTIP transition (ARTIP 2C) and also AI cleared for Rwy 18R in IMC conditions plus AI departing Rwy 24.

FS9....the sim that keeps on giving! :wub:

 

31491636121_658f8221d4_b.jpg

 

31491636251_1f3e50cb9d_b.jpg

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Hi edetroit,

Thanks for taking the time to answer! So the only way to get a "real" approach from FS9 would be hand writing with an external program..
 

Looking forward to your next video.

 

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Hi edetroit,

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer! So the only way to get a "real" approach from FS9 would be hand writing with an external program..

 

Looking forward to your next video.

 

 

 

 

Not strictly correct ..... a REAL approach all depends on what time you are flying in. In FS you can fly in any time you like. Some like to go back further in time than 2004. :)

 

I'm just saying if you want to fly in 2016 FSATC approach will need to be updated. It is not that hard and the perfect tool is Airport Design Editor (ADE)

 

My main aim for learning approaches was to get away from the dreaded FSATC vectors and selecting anything but a visual approach does just that.... and now I enjoy it.  :smile:

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Hello all,

 

This is intriguing.  I have been using a totally different approach towards ATC in FS9 and feel that I may be missing out on something.  To better explain my method I will go into a little more detail.

 

First of all, I mainly fly the IFly 737 (BBJ3 is my favourite)  and I have saved the aircraft (with docked screens - see my profile pic) at all the airports Ifly (sic) from.  These are mainly in Australia and Indonesia.

 

Before getting into FS9 I have to decide, a) where I fly from and B) where I am flying to.  I then get into Routefinder (free) or On-line planner (free) which incidentally, uses route finder data, but also provides fuel requirements data and a map of the route selected.  

 

From there I go to Navigraph charts and check the charts (SID) at my departure airport, make my selection and do the same for the STAR at the destination airport.  

 

 After getting into FS, I select the aircraft/airport I wish to leave from...set up time and season to current time/date, "Go to airport" is already selected and then set up the weather.  Wind direction/strength normally determines which runway will be in use and ATC rarely directs me to a runway I have not flightplanned (FMS) for. After setting up IRS I then begin programming the FMS and I select the runway I wish to use in the "route" section. This same procedure applies to the approach ie it can be manipulated through the WX setup under the WORLD tab.  I am then able to select my SID/Transition the the Dep/Arr button and pressing Dep/Arr again gives me access to the arrival page where I can select the appropriate STAR. Incidentally, if the wx at the destination is contrary to the runway/approach I have selected I then go in the WX/World tab and simply change the wind direction, and this normally solves the problem. 

 

After engine start I then call ATC which only gives me VFR choices, however, I select my appropriate 

departure (north/south etc) and am given approval to taxi.  It should be noted that with multiple runways ie L or R options, and you are given the incorrect runway you can select a preferred runway which is always granted

I then taxi to the runway, obtain approval to take off and immediately after takeoff ATC advise me that I am leaving their airspace.  I can then opt to stay off air or request flight following and then suffer through an incredible and (I believe) unnecessary, number of frequency swaps.  I prefer to fly in peace so I do not respond to this.

 

Having said all of this,  I appreciate that this is only a workable system if one is programing a FMC/FMS which has no input into the ATC IFR system. It is a whole new system if you use the GPS Flight planner. I acknowledge there may be a better way and I would be keen to investigate this if it could be a detailed procedure and explanation. Please bear in mind the aforementioned Instructor and my aged and feeble mind.

 

 

 

I really do not know if this has been a distraction from the topic or a help to someone but hope sincerely for the latter.

 

 

Regards

 

Tony Chilcott

 

 

 

 

 

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Hello Tony, do you export your IFly flight plan to the FS flight planner and save it as IFR? If you do then FSATC will know what your flight plan is and direct you accordingly. 

 

I cannot remember whether the IFLY can export an FS flight plan, I remember using FSbuild in the old days.

 

Even if the waypoints (obviously up-to-date in the IFLY) are not available in the FSdatabase FS would still write the flight plan.

 

I do things in a more complex way. Because I can update my FSdatabase the waypoints I need are there, so I can write a FS flight plan directly into the FS Flightplanner. 

 

Like you I choose my route first (which airports). I load real weather at my departure airport (ASE). Find out which runways are in use and which runways will be in use at my arrival airport.

 

ThenI find out which gate my airline would normally use and which runway/departure it would use .....same for arrival. Yes I am that sad!  :lol:

 

I then write my FS flight plan (after updating waypoint database and approaches) 

 

There's more.......If you want to fly FS9.x (that is FS9 in 2016) :dirol:

 

Editvoicepak: I use an updated FSATC that does NOT cancel my IFR flight plan if I bust an altitude or do not call back a station in time. It is accelerated and I update it for callsigns etc.

 

I have to admit my reasons for delving deeply into FS ATC is I write my own simulations of various navigation units based on the FS GPS coding (Trimbles,Apollos,Littons,Delcos,CMA 900,UNS's,Smiths etc etc ...the only L-1011 FMS I've seen bar Aerosim's (it's in my avatar))

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Edetroit,

 

My EditVoicePack lifesaver.  How are you mate?

 

In answer to your query, I have no bloody idea if I can export in the FS Planner nor how to do so.  I have been just so happy to be able to operate the IFly 737 and to use ATC.  I was told early on that I could not use ATC in conjunction with the FMS/FMC Plan.  In reality, I have (until now) investigated no further.  

 

I know  I can save a flight plan under the FMS Menu/SIMU/SAVE /SAVE ROUTE (typically something like YSSYYBBN34L) and then on the next flight, insert that into the Co Route. There may well be another approach and you have given me food for thought.  I shall dig deep to find out and let you know.  I have a few queries for the IFly forum so maybe I shall couch a few questions amongst those.  They will definitely be off topic here.

 

I also use the FS World Navaids updater to keep up to date with the AIRAC data for FS9 and use Navigraph for the IFLY Aircraft, so waypoints do not prove to be a problem.

 

As for Gates etc I fly as a unofficial Charter (Five Star Charter) so I would not expect regular gates and am happy to go where they tell me (as long as they are polite about it LOL) and if necessary turn on the progressive taxi although I only find that so if one of my idiotic passengers (all VIPs of course) turn on a mobile phone or tablet whilst I am taxiing thereby causing me to get lost LOL. I just knew there was a reason they tell you not to do that in the real world (Tongue in cheek and PML  ... peeing myself laughing)

 

Thanks for your response and good to hear from you

 

Regards

 

Tony

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I was told early on that I could not use ATC in conjunction with the FMS/FMC Plan

 

You can.... I always do.

What you need to do is export your IFLY flight plan to the FSflightplanner. Either the IFLY can do this (cannot remember) or other software (for example FSbuild) can export your IFLY plan to FS (in fact it converts from lots of different formats to the fs flight planner format).

 

One of the things that make me laugh with this combo is TOD (top of descent). I can see lots of simmers going "who should I follow ...FSATC or my FMS?" Of course IRL you should follow ATC.  :smile:

 

Anyway you'd be surprised how accurate FSATC can be with TOD.

 

Happy flying Tony! :hi:

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TOD is very accurate, its always close, but you need to have a reasonable estimate for it, like circuit hight and speed at arrival point (not the runway!)

 

Ed, I understand all you said, but I mess up a lot when on the fly.. meaning in realtime.

In a fmc equipped plane its do able, but with just vor's its pruning thru charts, and even then not always clear.

Can you make video doing such an approach with just basic stuff ? VOR and or NDB's ?

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Johan,

 

I don't see where this has been posted, so here goes. 

 

If you want to update you default FS2004 Navaids to most current cycle:  http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids2.html

 

And for most current cycle of Fix (intersections) updates:  http://www.aero.sors.fr/navint.html

 

The navaids are updated with monthly cycles, fix updates quarterly.  Very straight forward insaller for the navaids and will back up your current default ones.  The Fix update is easy to do manually with good instructions.

 

Hope you find this of use, which will allow your current charts to match the navaids in FS2004.

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@Beeachcaptain, yes I know of them, but they are navaids, not approaches.

But that doesnt matter. I see most of them arent that many changed.

However, the initial question was about listing them, but there doesnt seem to be a tool.

 

Arriving at EHAM I see a lot of TOPPA approaches but not on my charts, then its starts puzzling.. where the hell is TOPPA ?

And then flying in a non fmc plane it gets .. euh... downhill..

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Arriving at EHAM I see a lot of TOPPA approaches but not on my charts, then its starts puzzling.. where the hell is TOPPA ?

 

Here it is, in the middle of the North Sea (courtesy of FlightSim Commander):

 

Capture_zpsjkl1igdy.jpg

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TOPPA is the entry waypoint for the TOPPA2A STAR into EHAM. The rest of the following waypoints are part of that STAR. I would expect that after SUGOL they vector you for landing. SUGOL is part of a holding pattern and is the exist holding anchor point.

 

My source is the current  EHAM Standard Arrival Chart for EHAM from Eurocontrol which has all of the STARs on one chart.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjflkorcavvtz0d/TOPPA2A%20EHAM.jpg?dl=0

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Hello all,

 

Just a quick one in response to all relevant responses.

 

I am currently playing around and coming to grips with SimBrief (Free) This is largely due to a lack of funds to buy a payware flight planner.

At this stage, due to other commitments (ie She who MUST be obeyed) I have not delved too far into it.  However, I will report on progress and/or success with this programme.

 

Thanks to all for your help so far.

 

Regards to all

 

Tony

 

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