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Tango777

Problems across the panel

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Just curious if anyone else has these problems:

 

If I am on the ground long enough with the C441 while not running an engine, the batteries discharge very quickly. So I switch to another airplane (FSX default airplane, Cessna 172 or Ultralight) quickly and then I quickly switch back to the C441. I can then turn on every instrument including Alabeo's Avidyne MFD which turns on automatically, and default C441's radios when I turn them on, but the Flight1 GTN750 will not turn back on automatically as it should. Alabeo support has gone quiet on this problem as they e-mail me back by talking about other problems that the C441 has thereby ignoring the problem. This does not happen in any other plane I own.

 

Alabeo quit responding on this topic in my support ticket I told Alabeo support that the C441 needs a GPU, but they replied and said that FSX will not support a GPU for a turboprop. I told them about the PMDG J4100, because it is a turboprop, and the J4100's GPU functions perfectly. No response from Alabeo support on this GPU topic yet.

 

Both DME instruments never show values as they only show orange dash marks even though I will tune both Nav1 and Nav2 radios to a VOR. I can be at FL150 30nm away from ORD's VOR or any other VOR and the orange dash marks remain every time, but the VOR needles work fine and point in the proper direction. No response from Alabeo support on this.

 

During flight it is very easy to accidentally affect the rudder trim wheel while adjusting the AP's vertical speed pitch wheel. If the mouses hand gets bumped to the right by a few millimeters by a little turbulence just slightly to the right of the AP's vertical pitch wheel, the rudder trim wheel which is basically on the floor is all of a sudden being manipulated by my mouses hand. The AP trim wheel is no where near the rudder trim wheel. Alabeo support wants more information from me on this topic but is a screenshot along with a detailed description of the the problem not enough? They are now ignoring me on this issue.

 

The beacon light does not function properly and Alabeo told me that is because the C441 has an exclusive switch for the beacon in that the anti-collision switch controls both the beacon and the anti-collision lights. That is not how it works on any plane I can think of. In a real life C441, the beacon lights are on the tail and belly, but Alabeo has an invisible beacon light source on the belly that is on when you load the airplane without any light switches turned on. For proof that the C441 has an independent beacon light and that it is not tied to the same exclusive switch as the anti-collision lights switch, well here ya go:

 

The pressurization rate dial does not function which is not that big of a deal, but they have ignored me on this item too.

 

The weather radar in the Alabeo Avidyne MFD shows snow sometimes while in some strange simultaneous way mirroring exactly what the Stormscope shows. Their Stormscope gauge does not function the way their pdf states that it will.

 

Before I forget: Where is the operations manual?

 

As for ground handling: Does anyone else feel like it taxis on a sheet of ice even at slow speeds of 2 knots when the taxiways and runways are dry in a desert or on a snowy day?

 

This is my first Alabeo airplane and so far I am not impressed with customer service or in what needs to be fixed where Alabeo support basically says that their model is accurate to the real plane.

 

I read some good reviews on their track record of support, and I read some really bad reviews on their customer support before buying the C441. So when they tell us that they are going to be updating the C441, I hope they listen to customers that submit support tickets during their current silence. Realizing I sound like just a complainer, but where is the real support? I am just asking for basic help.

 

Has anyone else out there had any of the problems I listed above?

 

brandon

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Welcome to the wonderful world of Alabeo/Carenado, or as I like to call them, A-lame-o/Care-not-o. :sad:

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If Alabeo does not respond to my reply to their last e-mail to me about where I answered their questions to troubleshoot the problems, do I have the right to request a refund from them if they do not end up fixing what say is on their update list?

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Generally speaking: no right, but they may do it as a gesture of goodwill.

But I'd say wait a bit, for many people the working year will start tomorrow.

 

Regarding your problems (disclaimer: I don't own this aircraft, so all is guesswork):

- FSUIPC can increase your battery life by a configurable factor, but you may need the registered version. I think there is a free program that does a similar thing.

  But just because some developers model a GPU outside the FSX code, you can't expect all developers to do that.

- Did you really tune to a VORDME or DME? Not all VORs send DME signals. And did you use a VORDME or DME that really exists in FSX? Double-check with another simple aircraft, that does not use AIRAC information, but the FSX navaids.

- Regarding AP pitch wheel vs. rudder trim: Mouse moving due to aircraft shaking is a problem for me in many aircraft. I have configured a second view with EZdok Camera without this shaking to do such things, and I usually assign joystick buttons to the AP pitch wheel.

- Regarding beacon vs. anti-collision lights: I think they are correct here.

  Edit: http://www.avsim.com/index.php/_/reviews/aircraft/review-flysimware-cessna-441-conquest-ii-r2835 says about the Flysimware C441: "The lighting switches are self-explanatory but Cessna also at this time did not include a Rotating Beacon but Flysimware has included a popular after release upgrade that can used in place of the beacon, the Recognition light and is installed below the primary lighting switches."

- Pressurization: This isn't modelled well in FSX and I congratulate every developer who implements this on their own, but I don't expect anything in most FSX planes.

- Operations manual: There are many online resources for this, or buy an AFM. That is nothing different from many other payware aircraft. If such aircraft include good documentation, it is a bonus.

  Edit: You could use the manual for Flight1's C441: http://www.flight1software.com/441/manuals/Flight1%20441%20Userguides.zip

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Generally speaking: no right, but they may do it as a gesture of goodwill.

But I'd say wait a bit, for many people the working year will start tomorrow. They were e-mailing me last week and then they just stopped mid week when I caught a mistake that they made regarding the GPU deal.

 

Regarding your problems (disclaimer: I don't own this aircraft, so all is guesswork):

- FSUIPC can increase your battery life by a configurable factor, but you may need the registered version. I think there is a free program that does a similar thing. Alabeo support realizes that the batteries discharge way too fast and they claim that a fix is coming in the next version that will extend the battery life.

  But just because some developers model a GPU outside the FSX code, you can't expect all developers to do that. My point is that Alabeo support said to me that a GPU is impossible for a turboprop in FSX in that a GPU would never work for a turbo prop because they claim that FSX does not recognize GPUs for a turboprop, and that is simply not the case. Just look at the PMDG J4100. When I mentioned the J4100, Alabeo quit responding all together and ever since my support ticket has been ignored even though there are other issues for them to address within my support ticket. Pretty sad support followup.

- Did you really tune to a VORDME or DME? Not all VORs send DME signals. And did you use a VORDME or DME that really exists in FSX? Double-check with another simple aircraft, that does not use AIRAC information, but the FSX navaids. I have tuned to the following: ORD, BNA, LGA, and PHX just to name a few. All of which have DME. All aircraft receive DME from these very same VOR freq's except the Alabeo C441.

- Regarding AP pitch wheel vs. rudder trim: Mouse moving due to aircraft shaking is a problem for me in many aircraft. I have configured a second view with EZdok Camera without this shaking to do such things, and I usually assign joystick buttons to the AP pitch wheel. My mouse is directly over the AP switch wheel and my mouse scrolling wheel moves the rudder trim, not even close.

- Regarding beacon vs. anti-collision lights: I think they are correct here. Cessna did not install rotating beacons {rotating being the key word}, but they installed beacons that are controlled independently of the anti-coll switch. Watch the youtube video link I posted above. One is on the belly and the other is on top of the vertical stab, and in the video you will see that both beacons are on and that the anti-coll lights are not on because the plane is not on the rwy.

  Edit: http://www.avsim.com/index.php/_/reviews/aircraft/review-flysimware-cessna-441-conquest-ii-r2835 says about the Flysimware C441: "The lighting switches are self-explanatory but Cessna also at this time did not include a Rotating Beacon but Flysimware has included a popular after release upgrade that can used in place of the beacon, the Recognition light and is installed below the primary lighting switches."

- Pressurization: This isn't modelled well in FSX and I congratulate every developer who implements this on their own, but I don't expect anything in most FSX planes. Then Alabeo should state this. This is the first payware plane or payware tool that I have bought where I had to search my computer for its documentation.

- Operations manual: There are many online resources for this, or buy an AFM. That is nothing different from many other payware aircraft. If such aircraft include good documentation, it is a bonus. If they cannot provide a manual like my other payware aircraft developers, then how did they make the plane?

  Edit: You could use the manual for Flight1's C441: http://www.flight1software.com/441/manuals/Flight1%20441%20Userguides.zip

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If Alabeo does not respond to my reply to their last e-mail to me about where I answered their questions to troubleshoot the problems, do I have the right to request a refund from them if they do not end up fixing what say is on their update list?

 

I understand that you want the airplane to be perfect... Knowing Alabeo/Carenado, that is unlikely to be accomplished.  Enjoy the plane for what it delivers and do not insist on perfection, or you are just going to be an unhappy customer (without recourse..).

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I understand that you want the airplane to be perfect... Knowing Alabeo/Carenado, that is unlikely to be accomplished.  Enjoy the plane for what it delivers and do not insist on perfection, or you are just going to be an unhappy customer (without recourse..).

 

I am not asking for perfection, because if I were my list would be much longer.

 

What bothers me is their lack of support and telling me an untruth as this is a first for me. On top of that ignoring a customer is flat out rude and it looks like they don't care. Asking a customer several questions on a support ticket, and then the customer such as myself takes the time to answer the questions with screenshots because they asked for them, and then ignoring the customer's reply is simply wrong. Who disagrees with this philosophy?

 

Untruth Example: I fully understand that having a gpu equals a ton of code and programming which would make the plane more expensive, but according to Alabeo support the PMDG J4100 and Majestic's Q400 should not have a gpu because FSX makes it impossible for a gpu to work with a turboprop. So are they lying to me, or do they simply not know that gpu's do indeed work in FSX?

 

If they have a reputation, according to many {and now myself included}, of having bad customer support then the guys down in Santiago, Chile who run things should have forums on their website, like many other developers do, which would help them (Alabeo/Carenado) and people that buy their planes solve problems instead of ignoring problems along with their customers.

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Cessna did not install rotating beacons {rotating being the key word}, but they installed beacons that are controlled independently of the anti-coll switch.

 

Switch for the non-rotating recognition light to be used instead of the rotating beacon in the Flysimware C441:

046.jpg

 

No switch for the recognition light in this picture of a real C441:

lndgswitch.jpg

 

(and no such switch mentioned in the AFM either)

 

If they cannot provide a manual like my other payware aircraft developers, then how did they make the plane?

From Cessna's manual ... but they can't give you Cessna's manual, because that would be a copyright violation.

 

I don't know the style you used when writing to Alabeo, but if it is like here I could understand why they no longer answer.

 

But I hope for you (and others) that they will fix what they can fix, but I suggest taking Bert's advice and enjoy this aircraft as much as possible within its limitations.

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Alabeo quit responding on this topic in my support ticket I told Alabeo support that the C441 needs a GPU, but they replied and said that FSX will not support a GPU for a turboprop. I told them about the PMDG J4100, because it is a turboprop, and the J4100's GPU functions perfectly. No response from Alabeo support on this GPU topic yet.

 

I  use Johan Bellardi's GPU package for a number of aircraft. If you search:  GPU Powerpack for Carenado C90 ​on AVSIM you can download Johan Bellardi's GPU package. I use this for several aircraft including the Alabeo C404. I don't know if it works for the C441 but I think it may be what you're looking for. Most people select the extended battery life option in FSUIPC, but If you are obsessed with reality you can give this a shot. If you do and if it works on the C441, remember to un check/tick the extended battery option in the miscellaneous tab of FSUIPC.

 

I think there are a couple of other aircraft options like the Carenado C208. It normally doesn't have to be for the specific aircraft as it requires some panel.cfg mods.  - Les Parson

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My style of writing Alabeo support has been different than here. Words used such as: please, when you can, thank you for your help so far, and my latest e-mail down to them with a screenshot that they asked for last Wednesday: "Per your request please see attached screenshot of the AP pitch wheel and I hope you have not forgotten about me."

 

Fairly polite wording in my book.

 

I only mentioned here on this forum that they told me an untruth about the gpu, or they do not know what they are talking about.

 

However ask yourself one question, and that is: If a developer told you an untruth, how would you react?

 

With Alabeo support you have to login and then look through issues that might have already been addressed. I have not posted anything, but other C441 customers have posted so called "solutions" and these "solutions" are not solutions unfortunately. They are hard hitting words against Alabeo's support directed at Alabeo, so anyone can check out what is going on there if they want to do so.

 

Keep in mind that English is Alabeo's second language which is no problem, I can converse in Spanish if I have to.

 

I have learned now that Carenado oversees Alabeo so I think I will contact Carenado.

 

However in fairness to Alabeo I just received an e-mail from them while typing this post. So for the benefit of anyone that reads this post and has problems with their C441 and Alabeo support, here is what I just received:

 

"Thank you for your feedback, we are going to consider these issues to fix it for the next version."


I  use Johan Bellardi's GPU package for a number of aircraft. If you search:  GPU Powerpack for Carenado C90 ​on AVSIM you can download Johan Bellardi's GPU package. I use this for several aircraft including the Alabeo C404. I don't know if it works for the C441 but I think it may be what you're looking for. Most people select the extended battery life option in FSUIPC, but If you are obsessed with reality you can give this a shot. If you do and if it works on the C441, remember to un check/tick the extended battery option in the miscellaneous tab of FSUIPC.

 

I think there are a couple of other aircraft options like the Carenado C208. It normally doesn't have to be for the specific aircraft as it requires some panel.cfg mods.  - Les Parson

 

Thank you for the GPU Powerpack! I will look at it.

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From Cessna's manual ... but they can't give you Cessna's manual, because that would be a copyright violation.

 

I think you misunderstood me. I was referring to manuals that are provided when you buy a plane from people like Aerosoft, PMDG, Flight1, FlightSim Labs. They can provide manuals like PMDG does. PMDG is crystal clear on their manuals they utilized and provide their customers because on page 1 they clearly state Boeing Copyright. Any developer can do this.

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I think you misunderstood me. I was referring to manuals that are provided when you buy a plane from people like Aerosoft, PMDG, Flight1, FlightSim Labs. They can provide manuals like PMDG does. PMDG is crystal clear on their manuals they utilized and provide their customers because on page 1 they clearly state Boeing Copyright. Any developer can do this.

Yes, some developers have great manuals! But by now this is rather an exception than the norm, and usually those who have good manuals have a higher price tag and fewer published aircraft.

Just look at the manual coming with FSX or FS2004 (nearly nothing) in comparison to older releases (books!).

 

Simply stating "Boeing Copyright" isn't enough, you still need to acquire permission from the copyright holder. Sometimes this involves money, sometimes a kind of certification process where the sim aircraft developer has to show that the simulation is good enough so that the original aircraft manufacturer is happy with it.

 

It is not even granted that simulated aircraft may use the original name, because some manufacturers see this as a trademark violation. This is more prevalent with cars and trucks, but I already have seen FSX aircraft with "inspired by (some aircraft model)".

 

But good to know that Alabeo answered you, let's hope the best for the next update!

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sometimes a kind of certification process where the sim aircraft developer has to show that the simulation is good enough so that the original aircraft manufacturer is happy with it.

 

Thanks for this info. This answers all of my questions about the C441 and how Alabeo developed it.

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Thanks for this info. This answers all of my questions about the C441 and how Alabeo developed it.

:wink:

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Hello

 

I am asking those familiar with the type/add-on. I am planning to purchase Alabeo's C441. Could you please let me know the following:

 

Can you kill the engine by firwalling the throttle for long durations?

When flaring, does it behave like Carenado planes, i.e. just falls out of the skies at stall without any buffeting, like a brick or something?

Would you recommend this plane to a pro-simmer, or it is just for eye-candy lovers?

 

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Cheers

 

Csaba

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Hello

 

I am asking those familiar with the type/add-on. I am planning to purchase Alabeo's C441. Could you please let me know the following:

 

Can you kill the engine by firwalling the throttle for long durations?

When flaring, does it behave like Carenado planes, i.e. just falls out of the skies at stall without any buffeting, like a brick or something?

Would you recommend this plane to a pro-simmer, or it is just for eye-candy lovers?

 

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Cheers

 

Csaba

 

I have flown 5 flight that lasts more than 30 minutes where I leave the throttles to the firewall from hitting f4 on the runway all the way thru initiating the descent just to see what will happen, and I have never received an indicator light or damaged an engine. My fsx is set to full realism.

 

On a day when winds are practically 000/00, or stronger winds, I have kept it at 65 to 70 knots and it just hovers until around 60 knots and it eventually touches down. I have never received a stall warning.

 

I have taken off from a 3500 ft. rwy with a x-wind component and winds at 12 knots and I rotated less than half way down the runway with 75% fuel in both tanks and a full load. With practically no winds it is the same experience.

 

I replied to another post in this forum and you can read my comments on engine startup and ground handling with the prop controls.

 

The wx radar and storm tracker that it comes with are mirror images of each other, and it only detects rain. It displays rain as green blotches all around you.

 

DMEs do not read the Nav2 radio but the VOR needles do track the Nav2 freq.

 

Personally it is not for a pro simmer if you want the realism of the PMDG J4100 as example. I regret buying the C441. In submitting my last 3 tech support requests, they respond with the same sentence.

 

The tech support is really not there. Their answers to me have not addressed my questions because their replies are: Thank you for your feedback, we are going to consider these issues to fix it for the next version.

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Thanks a bunch for your response, it is most useful. Would you confirm that all Alabeo products are like this, or there might be some exceptions?

 

CSaba

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Would you confirm that all Alabeo products are like this, or there might be some exceptions?

 

I can only speak for the C441 because it is the first and last Alabeo product that I will own.

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I can only speak for the C441 because it is the first and last Alabeo product that I will own.

I think we can conclude that most of your criticisms of the 441 are spurious and down to operator error.  For example I've just tuned to ORD VOR and receive a DME reading.

And, as far as I have experienced, there is no problem with ground handling either. And the route most definitely shows up on the Avidyne.

 

In general though, surely everyone knows by now that Alabeo/Carenado do not produce aircraft with great system depth. But they do work well enough. If you want more than that systems-wise, purchase the Flysimware product. They also do an excellent series of in-depth Youtube tutorials which has helped me enjoy the Alabeo 441 even more!

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I think we can conclude that most of your criticisms of the 441 are spurious and down to operator error.  For example I've just tuned to ORD VOR and receive a DME reading.

And, as far as I have experienced, there is no problem with ground handling either. And the route most definitely shows up on the Avidyne.

 

In general though, surely everyone knows by now that Alabeo/Carenado do not produce aircraft with great system depth. But they do work well enough. If you want more than that systems-wise, purchase the Flysimware product. They also do an excellent series of in-depth Youtube tutorials which has helped me enjoy the Alabeo 441 even more!

 

Anyone should be careful when using the word spurious because that would mean in your post that you are accusing someone, in your case me, that they are false or fake. I just looked in the mirror and I am not fake, and none of my complaints on Alabeo's C441 are false.
 
I am not going to re-type all of the problems that I have already posted in this forum about Alabeo's C441. But I will reiterate a few things that are major problems encountered by many people in this forum and others, including other posts in this forum outside of mine, because Alabeo has no customer support. I suggest you read other people's posts in this forum who have legitimate complaints, and after you do that then please elaborate on who the people you refer to as, we.
 
Operator error you say....
 
Why do I have to start and taxi with the condition levers all of the way forward instead of keeping them in Start/Taxi to prevent the plane from being a rocket? Many people have this problem but Alabeo ignores us that do as I try to read other forums. Constantly tapping the brakes is not even close to how airplanes taxi when engines are idling, meaning the throttles are at 0%. This is an issue that alot of people have.
 
If you put the Flight1 GTN750 in the Alabeo C441 as I have, which Alabeo says their C441 fully supports, the NAV2 radio on the Alabeo panel renders no DME reading. This does not happen in any other airplane that I have the GTN750 in. Alabeo knows this because I submitted a ticket with screenshots on this issue after my first few flights and they end up doing nothing to explain or help. All I received in return was, "Thank you for your feedback, we are going to consider these issues to fix it for the next version."  Is it possible that they now realize it does not work now that it has been released. Why does the Nav1 radio in the GTN750 make the Alabeo Nav2 needle point in the direction of the ILS freq? That is not how it is suppose to work.
 
Customer support at any level from Alabeo on the above issues??? Nope.
 
You say that Alabeo has an excellent series of in-depth youtube tutorial. So I just went to their website to check and there is only 1 video on the C441 page which is 1:30 long showing some pictures inside and out. If Alabeo has in your words, "excellent series of in-depth youtube tutorials", I would like to see the hyperlink of Alabeo's youtube videos that you say have helped you.

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Anyone should be careful when using the word spurious because that would mean in your post that you are accusing someone, in your case me, that they are false or fake.
...
You say that Alabeo has an excellent series of in-depth youtube tutorial. So I just went to their website to check and there is only 1 video on the C441 page which is 1:30 long showing some pictures inside and out. If Alabeo has in your words, "excellent series of in-depth youtube tutorials", I would like to see the hyperlink of Alabeo's youtube videos that you say have helped you.

1. As a non-native speaker I just learned that "spurious" means something different that I always thought, thank you :)

2. Even as a non-native speaker I'm pretty sure that thefrog's "They" refers to Flysimware and their youtube videos.

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I agree, 'Spurious' was the wrong word to use and I apologise. I was referring to Flysimware's series of tutorials on their own C441, which helped me understand the aircraft in general.

 

 

Flysimware's C441 is much better in terms of systems, so maybe you could consider purchasing that. The cockpit is much less realistic though, but 'horses for courses' as they say.

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I agree, 'Spurious' was the wrong word to use and I apologise. I was referring to Flysimware's series of tutorials on their own C441, which helped me understand the aircraft in general.

 

 

Flysimware's C441 is much better in terms of systems, so maybe you could consider purchasing that. The cockpit is much less realistic though, but 'horses for courses' as they say.

 

Okay. No problem.

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