JLSeagull

I really do hope that P3D v4....

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... can recreate the epiphany moment that I have recently experienced with XP11.

Why?  Well.... As an avowed FSX'er since the year dot - and latterly a D'er (but not according to SWMBO), I have resolutely avoided XP after we had a very brief collision a couple of years ago. No-one died, there were no witnesses and we both dusted ourselves off and went our seperate ways.

Several weeks ago, in a moment of grape-induced curiosity, I bought the dreaded foe in order to lay to rest all of my lingering doubts and to finally affirm to myself that this 'alternative' Sim really was the imposter that I had always known it to be.

 

Bad move.

 

To fly, rooftop-level, over Innsbruck in XP11 is an absolute revelation in scenic graphics (try it in P3D and you will immediately understand). To have an aircraft illuminate its own way to a hangar or gate at night (and any object that falls in its path), is simply astonishing. Scenery to die for and most of it Freeware or DonationWare!!

I could go on and on about this Sim ... but there simply isn't enough space or time in my Life to talk.... I am back flying.

 

I really do hope that P3d v4 can recreate the epiphany moment that I have recently experienced with XP11...

...because then - WE, as a flight sim community will have the very best of both Worlds!!

 

 

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Hey Mitch.... I've been around the Periferique enough times to make even You dizzy!

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The visual experience is no doubt impressive in X-plane. Even version 10 was amazing. We are also starting to see some of the big complaints being addressed, which is also great. It's good that you took the time to really look at it and I think you will probably come across several things that it does really well. However, there is still lots of work to make everyone happy, and that probably won't ever happen. Right now a combination of FSX(P3D for others) and X-plane gives me most of what I like.

As for P3Ds future, I'm thinking it needs more work then LM cares to invest to meet the needs of the entertainment market. It's 6 years in the making and 3 major releases haven't shown us much; but I'm sure their commercial clients are happy. In fact I spoke with one and they are happy and still using version 1.4, which by the way, works flawlessly if you don't flood it with addons. So lets wait and see what P3D v4 brings to the table, maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised.

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Yep!  I avoided XP10 and 11 like the plague.  I swore by P3D as God's gift to flight simming but I too finally said screw it and bought a copy.   They can't improve if no one buys the product was part of my rational and I want competition in the sim market!  I want a fierce fight between companies because WE end users benefit when people actually have to compete for a paycheck.

I griped that there was no scenery for USA.    I was wrong.

I griped that there was no heavy metal to fly.   I was wrong.  Tons of it from Boeing and Airbus and a good MD-80 to boot.  Tons of GA planes if that's your thing too.

I griped about the bad ATC.... well.. this gripe is still there.  The ATC blows chunks and there are few choices for 3rd party solutions and what is out there is only half functional from what I've seen and read.   No, VATSIM is not the solution to this problem so stop saying it.   Vatsim is a CRUTCH to a working AI ATC program.   I want coverage 24/7 at every airport at any time of day or night.  Vatsim does not provide this.

I griped about the lack of good AI traffic.   This is still true but about to improve big time I think.   World Traffic 3 I hope will fix this.  World Traffic 2 requires WAY to much end user fiddling to get airports working because airport designers either are lazy, unfamiliar with the new standards or have not yet gotten around to updating their airport projects to 10.50+ standards that WT2 kind of needs to work correctly;  Proper ATC network, Proper gate labels and assignments to air carriers, etc.   I am working on KAMA-Amarillo again with complete 3D custom modeling this time around and my airport works great with World Traffic 2 now.   When I completed the taxi ways and aprons my next step was to build the ATC network before I put a single object anywhere on the airport.    I then built the ground routes and the flight package for KAMA.    Total time to do this, 1 hour and some change.   Stop leaving this important data out of your airport builds designers!  PLEASE!  I am begging you!   Larger airports will take longer than an hour but its still easy to do... but not easy to do for the end user when they have 100 airports they need to fix because you didn't put the data in there!  *shakes fist*   Again... Vatsim is NOT the solution to this problem.   I like to see more than 10 airplanes at my airports, thanks.

I griped about the weather engine.... and.. well.. it still sucks too but xEnviro with freeware 4k Clouds for xEnviro took some of the sting out of the weather.  Laminar also updated the default engine to not suck nearly as bad as before but it still pails in comparison to the likes of Rex, OPUS and Active Sky.  No where close imo.   Please, Laminar.. 3rd party devs.. SOMEONE that's not me, GET ON THIS!  It is a vital part of flying!  

 

Overall, I have flown XP11 now for almost 2 months and love it.   It renders better, flight modeling is better and performs better on my hardware than P3D ever did.   I have 100% of the USA covered in Ortho scenery now with Autogen overlays and it crushes anything out there on P3D.   Unles P3D V4 has some epic overhauling I don't think I'll be picking up another license.

 

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10 minutes ago, Kuragiman said:

Overall, I have flown XP11 now for almost 2 months and love it.   It renders better, flight modeling is better and performs better on my hardware than P3D ever did.   I have 100% of the USA covered in Ortho scenery now with Autogen overlays and it crushes anything out there on P3D.   Unles P3D V4 has some epic overhauling I don't think I'll be picking up another license.

 

Hi Brian ..... and Welcome to the new Club. I'm with you on this one bro!

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I will never understand this pressure to go back to PRD. It's because of the many bucks invested there? Because of the quality aircrafts available? We have enough planes to deal for the next year and I believe in 2018 we'll see many more addons because XP11 is starting to become a rewarding platform for payware developers.

I'm enough happy with XEnviro, don't feel the urge to go back to ASN & co. , WT3 will fill the gap for AI traffic withmore ground routes being generated and tested (we badly need a common downloadable database) , PIlot2ATC is getting better and better and I know tha author is interested to develop an API to integrate somewhat AI traffic. Lot of airports are coming, just bought a dozain during last black friday and still have to test some of them. Community is alive.

What I miss is maybe a career addon like FSPassengers.

Yesterday I finished a conversion of a FSX airport with a L18 photoreal and did a test flight: never had such an immersive Wow experience, really no urge to go back. And that was still XP10, still have to dig into new XP11 rendering. No hurry for me with such a good sim as XP10.

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49 minutes ago, J.L.Seagull said:

Hey Mitch.... I've been around the Periferique enough times to make even You dizzy!

LOLOLOLOL!   Dave, that made me break out in a very hearty laugh!   Cheers!

 

Mitch

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28 minutes ago, Desaix said:

I will never understand this pressure to go back to PRD. It's because of the many bucks invested there? Because of the quality aircrafts available? .....

Riccardo - For me, personally, there is no pressure to go anywhere. Like all flight simmers, I have tread a very weary and expensive path (as have most of us), tro obtain the very best PC systems and the very best scenery packages.that money can buy for P3D. To suddenly find that there is a better alternative Sim out there is a very hard pill to swallow..... 

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24 minutes ago, Kuragiman said:

I griped about the weather engine.... and.. well.. it still sucks too but xEnviro with freeware 4k Clouds for xEnviro took some of the sting out of the weather.  Laminar also updated the default engine to not suck nearly as bad as before but it still pails in comparison to the likes of Rex, OPUS and Active Sky.  No where close imo.   Please, Laminar.. 3rd party devs.. SOMEONE that's not me, GET ON THIS!  It is a vital part of flying!  

 

Watch closely the next update of xEnviro, seems they will use a new technique in the formation of clouds called "particle", hoping its a step forward in xp weather.

 

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Just now, pilot83 said:

Watch closely the next update of xEnviro, seems they will use a new technique in the formation of clouds called "particle", hoping its a step forward in xp weather.

 

Yeah I saw that.   It's not just HOW they look, but how they are formed that needs to change.   They need to be able to depict towering thunderheads and other bad weather visuals like AS16 can and soon Skyforce3D.   Skyforce3D can even depict Tornadoes!

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3 minutes ago, Kuragiman said:

Yeah I saw that.   It's not just HOW they look, but how they are formed that needs to change.   They need to be able to depict towering thunderheads and other bad weather visuals like AS16 can and soon Skyforce3D.   Skyforce3D can even depict Tornadoes!

You want Cloud Nirvanna ya b**ger! Go for it B.

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44 minutes ago, Desaix said:

I will never understand this pressure to go back to PRD. It's because of the many bucks invested there? Because of the quality aircrafts available? We have enough planes to deal for the next year and I believe in 2018 we'll see many more addons because XP11 is starting to become a rewarding platform for payware developers.

I'm enough happy with XEnviro, don't feel the urge to go back to ASN & co. , WT3 will fill the gap for AI traffic withmore ground routes being generated and tested (we badly need a common downloadable database) , PIlot2ATC is getting better and better and I know tha author is interested to develop an API to integrate somewhat AI traffic. Lot of airports are coming, just bought a dozain during last black friday and still have to test some of them. Community is alive.

What I miss is maybe a career addon like FSPassengers.

Yesterday I finished a conversion of a FSX airport with a L18 photoreal and did a test flight: never had such an immersive Wow experience, really no urge to go back. And that was still XP10, still have to dig into new XP11 rendering. No hurry for me with such a good sim as XP10.

I'll never understand this pressure tro stay on one side....

 

Newsflash: your computer can store and run more than one program!

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49 minutes ago, Desaix said:

What I miss is maybe a career addon like FSPassengers.

This.   I love FSPassengers and I really love FSCaptain.   Would love to have to programs like that in XP11

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50 minutes ago, Desaix said:

Yesterday I finished a conversion of a FSX airport with a L18 photoreal and did a test flight: never had such an immersive Wow experience, really no urge to go back. And that was still XP10, still have to dig into new XP11 rendering. No hurry for me with such a good sim as XP10.

I having bad like with converting airports over myself.   Any great secrets you can share on porting them properly?  A YouTube video you like?

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5 minutes ago, Raven9000 said:

I'll never understand this pressure tro stay on one side....

It's not pressure.  It's preference.  I don't want to feed TWO dogs, only the BEST dog.    Gets really expensive taking care of two beasts.

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2 minutes ago, Kuragiman said:

It's not pressure.  It's preference.  I don't want to feed TWO dogs, only the BEST dog.    Gets really expensive taking care of two beasts.

 

Well, being these dogs can play different games, I like keeping them both :)

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2 minutes ago, Raven9000 said:

Well, being these dogs can play different games, I like keeping them both :)

Heh!   Yeah, but one of them is Old Yeller and needs to be taken out behind the shed and put down!  :laugh:

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8 minutes ago, Kuragiman said:

but one of them is Old Yeller and needs to be taken out behind the shed and put down

:laugh::laugh: LMAO, good one Brian.

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1 hour ago, Kuragiman said:

Heh!   Yeah, but one of them is Old Yeller and needs to be taken out behind the shed and put down!  :laugh:

Well with so much good food Old Yeller is getting, I think it will have a longer life than it's expected! :cool:

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I still use both there are some aircraft in either sim that aren't replicated at the same fidelity on the other sim. XP definitely has the lighting down for sure.

Creating your own airports in XP is very easy compared to FSX/P3D. I find it strangely addictive and have made over a dozen lego airports that are on the gateway and now part of the sim :).

P3D on the other hand is a nightmare of complexities, the average Joe can't fire up the editor and change stuff easily. 

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34 minutes ago, Slayer said:

I still use both there are some aircraft in either sim that aren't replicated at the same fidelity on the other sim. XP definitely has the lighting down for sure.

Creating your own airports in XP is very easy compared to FSX/P3D. I find it strangely addictive and have made over a dozen lego airports that are on the gateway and now part of the sim :).

P3D on the other hand is a nightmare of complexities, the average Joe can't fire up the editor and change stuff easily. 

So true, after two years of my switch to XP (lucky swallowed my pill before entering the PMDG/ORBX money pit) I've been spending more time doing scenery than flying...quite addictive.

Brian, there's no easy way to convert scenery, sometimes really boring and I prefer ten thousand times to buy a XP scenery than doing my own stuff but it's sometimes fun above all if you have accumulated many titles in the other platform. I tend to convert places I've been in real life.

I usually replace all the ground stuff (runways, lines, ground markings, lights) with a XP native apt.dat data (taken from gateway or freeware stuff or done by myself) putting buildings from the conversion and replacing the ones in the XP scenery. Of course I prefer to use my own photoreal at L18 or L19 which is usualluy better than the one included in the original package. After a couple of years I'm enough skilled in WED and sketchup to create my own scenery so editing an existing one is much easier. Never done any scenery design in FSX by the way, I agree that XP is much user friendly for the casual Joe. Only pity is that we cannot share the result, for example I've spent weeks to convert an old Lago scenery of Venice town adding lights, monuments, the main bridge with cars moving onto, small islands...you see the point, the direct porting can be bad or good, what does count is how much work you put after adding XP features.

Conversion is usually quite useful to create a basic ATC wed layout taking parking position and taxiway data from AFCAD. From that I can create ground routes for WT fast enough. I've almost updated my Agre tool to create/edit ground routes from wed layout to version 2 with some features to help creating a realistic traffic flow (not a big fun of automatic generation without any user control, this leads usually to unrealistic behaviours).

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Having "built" airports in both WED for XP and ADE for P3d/FSX, in my opinion there is zero difference between the two in the complexity  of the process. And both are freeware.

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4 hours ago, Kuragiman said:

Heh!   Yeah, but one of them is Old Yeller and needs to be taken out behind the shed and put down!  :laugh:

I'm sure that's FS9 :P

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2 hours ago, Slayer said:

I still use both there are some aircraft in either sim that aren't replicated at the same fidelity on the other sim. XP definitely has the lighting down for sure.

Creating your own airports in XP is very easy compared to FSX/P3D. I find it strangely addictive and have made over a dozen lego airports that are on the gateway and now part of the sim :).

P3D on the other hand is a nightmare of complexities, the average Joe can't fire up the editor and change stuff easily. 

As someone who has made an airport or two for P3D I can attest to the horrible workload required to make a good airport in P3D.  I am working Amarillo Rick Husband in XP11 and I am amazed at how easy it is to get stuff going.   I am evening doing all the airport buildings as custom Sketchup models because the community provide easy plug-ins for Sketchup to convert the models to X-Plane ready models.    I am 50% done with modeling.  Texture is going to take a looooong while though.

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