FO & PF3

[FS++ 709]

2 hours ago, Helix1250 said:

Is MCE utilising the PF3 log file or does it still require Closed captions? 

Rob

If you use the patch ( a couple of posts above), you no longer need to enable "Closed Captions".

Make sure "PF3_MCE.ini" has

[MCE]

Active=1

 

[RALF9636 1,966]

Basically works fine without Closed Captions now. Very nice!

"Cessna 39K" also fine now.

Other issues i reported earlier still persist though. Makes no sense for me any more to test and list them all again as long as you don't provide changelogs to your updates.

Most annoying is that in "I have ATC" mode the FO is not able any more to readback the last command when I tell him to do so ("reply to ATC"). He always reads back the last command given before I said "I have ATC". This worked fine in earlier versions.

 

Two new issues I had (all tests with Closed Captions off and in "You have ATC"-mode):

a) Ready for takeoff the FO asked "Ground, request takeoff" where it should be "Tower, ...". I had manually switched to Tower frequency without PF3 having told me to do so. I assume this contributed to the problem. I remember a similar problem in this situation with one of the first "Closed Captions"-Versions.

b) Reading the "PF3Transmitting" flag basically works fine. If I tell the FO to make a request while an AI transmission is running he waits until it is finished before talking to ATC. Nice!

One problematic situation though: Several AI transmissions directly after each other. It happened that my FO talked into the second AI transmission in that case. The problem probably is that "PF3 Transmitting" is set to "0" shortly (between the two transmissions) but the PF3-internal process of the next AI transmission has already started so the PF3-PTT-hotkey does not work. Not sure if this can be worked around by MCE or if a change in PF3 is needed.

 

Two minor things that might be improved:

c) When Approach gives the approach clearance and tells to contact Tower when established, The FO immediately switches to Tower frequency (other than in earlier versions he does not make contact though, which is fine).

But we should remain on Approach frequency because there might still be some communication with Approach. I could ask for a different runway and Approach can issue speed constraints or give traffic advisories.

Finally it is not a problem because PF3 gives the speed constraints no matter if I am on Approach or already on Tower frequency (this might be something that has to be changed within PF3). But it is kind of weird to get speed constraints from Tower without having checked in there.

So I would prefer if the Approach frequency would remain set. Later I can say "going to Tower" and "contact Tower" ("Request landing" still does not work btw). Maybe these two steps can be automated: When I say "Contact Tower" the FO checks if we are on Tower frequency and sets the correct frequency if necessary before making contact.

 

d) When contacting Tower I am told something like "continue Approach, you are number one for landing". And that is read back exactly like that by the FO. So he reads back "you are number one for landing" which is a little odd. I think there are other phrases with this kind of problem too. Maybe every "you" can be replaced by "we" or something like that?

 

Keep up your great work. I'm sure it will all be sorted.

 

 

[FS++ 709]

On 8/1/2017 at 9:58 PM, RALF9636 said:

Basically works fine without Closed Captions now. Very nice!

"Cessna 39K" also fine now.

Other issues i reported earlier still persist though. Makes no sense for me any more to test and list them all again as long as you don't provide changelogs to your updates.

Most annoying is that in "I have ATC" mode the FO is not able any more to readback the last command when I tell him to do so ("reply to ATC"). He always reads back the last command given before I said "I have ATC". This worked fine in earlier versions.

 

Two new issues I had (all tests with Closed Captions off and in "You have ATC"-mode):

a) Ready for takeoff the FO asked "Ground, request takeoff" where it should be "Tower, ...". I had manually switched to Tower frequency without PF3 having told me to do so. I assume this contributed to the problem. I remember a similar problem in this situation with one of the first "Closed Captions"-Versions.

b) Reading the "PF3Transmitting" flag basically works fine. If I tell the FO to make a request while an AI transmission is running he waits until it is finished before talking to ATC. Nice!

One problematic situation though: Several AI transmissions directly after each other. It happened that my FO talked into the second AI transmission in that case. The problem probably is that "PF3 Transmitting" is set to "0" shortly (between the two transmissions) but the PF3-internal process of the next AI transmission has already started so the PF3-PTT-hotkey does not work. Not sure if this can be worked around by MCE or if a change in PF3 is needed.

 

Two minor things that might be improved:

c) When Approach gives the approach clearance and tells to contact Tower when established, The FO immediately switches to Tower frequency (other than in earlier versions he does not make contact though, which is fine).

But we should remain on Approach frequency because there might still be some communication with Approach. I could ask for a different runway and Approach can issue speed constraints or give traffic advisories.

Finally it is not a problem because PF3 gives the speed constraints no matter if I am on Approach or already on Tower frequency (this might be something that has to be changed within PF3). But it is kind of weird to get speed constraints from Tower without having checked in there.

So I would prefer if the Approach frequency would remain set. Later I can say "going to Tower" and "contact Tower" ("Request landing" still does not work btw). Maybe these two steps can be automated: When I say "Contact Tower" the FO checks if we are on Tower frequency and sets the correct frequency if necessary before making contact.

 

d) When contacting Tower I am told something like "continue Approach, you are number one for landing". And that is read back exactly like that by the FO. So he reads back "you are number one for landing" which is a little odd. I think there are other phrases with this kind of problem too. Maybe every "you" can be replaced by "we" or something like that?

 

Keep up your great work. I'm sure it will all be sorted.

 

 

Thanks for putting up a list of pending issues and thoroughly testing the new implementation.

Also, a big thank you to Dave March (PF3 dev) for making interfacing PF3 without using captions possible.

Please download this patch

Manually replace files. The assumption is that you have installed the latest version which supports P3D V4, 64 Bit.

The little imperfection regarding FO occasionally starting a transmission between 2 AI ones, should be left as is. After all, even in real life, pilots do interfere with other's transmissions, and one has to occasionally re-transmit.

Same for the odd instance where FO seems to have forgotten to reply to ATC. It's good for alertness, that way you can monitor what he's doing and not blindly assuming he's going through the process perfectly, and every time. Again real pilots, when distracted can fail to do so.

In addition, your other checklist related issue (other thread) regarding  stating flaps position with Airbus types should be sorted.

Issues reported in your previous post should now be resolved.

We won't be adding any new PF3 related features until it's the case.

 

 

[RALF9636 1,966]

5 hours ago, FS++ said:

Also, a big thank you to Dave March (PF3 dev) for making interfacing PF3 without using captions possible.

+1!

Quote

Please download this patch

The download link does not work for me. Seems not to be a link.

EDIT: The link in the other thread worked.

Quote

The little imperfection regarding FO occasionally starting a transmission between 2 AI ones, should be left as is. After all, even in real life, pilots do interfere with other's transmissions, and one has to occasionally re-transmit.

Same for the odd instance where FO seems to have forgotten to reply to ATC. It's good for alertness, that way you can monitor what he's doing and not blindly assuming he's going through the process perfectly, and every time. Again real pilots, when distracted can fail to do so.

Agreed.

Quote

In addition, your other checklist related issue (other thread) regarding  stating flaps position with Airbus types should be sorted.

Thank you.

Quote

Issues reported in your previous post should now be resolved.

Could you please clarify. What should be resolved?

Quote

We won't be adding any new PF3 related features until it's the case.

Please clarify. Does that include that there won't be any bugfixes related to PF3 for the time being any more? Okay, I know you probably started working on the CRJ and PF3 has to step back again...

 

But please don't get me wrong and let me take this opportunity to say a big THANK YOU for the FO-PF3 Integration you developed over the last weeks / months. Despite the persistence of some bugs, overall it works fine now and I guess all the remaining bugs can be worked around as it is.

It is a totally new experience and it is just fantastic!

 

 

 

[FS++ 709]

12 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

+1!

The download link does not work for me. Seems not to be a link.

Agreed.

Thank you.

Could you please clarify. What should be resolved?

Please clarify. Does that include that there won't be any bugfixes related to PF3 for the time being any more? Okay, I know you probably started working on the CRJ and PF3 has to step back again...

 

But please don't get me wrong and let me take this opportunity to say a big THANK YOU for the FO-PF3 Integration you developed over the last weeks / months. Despite the persistence of some bugs, overall it works fine now and I guess all the remaining bugs can be worked around as it is.

It is a totally new experience and it is just fantastic!

 

 

 

You're welcome.

Sorry for the link. Not sure what happened.

Here it is again.

Patch download link

And no, I didn't mean this is the end of MCE-PF3 integration.

What I meant, is that nothing new was added, and for now the focus is on getting the few issues you reported sorted.

Notably...

- FO not switching immediately to tower

- Asking FO to request landing. 

- FO not always catching the very latest caption when asked to reply.

- FO saying "You" when "we" is more appropriate.

The above should be resolved in the patch. Again you never know without doing all sorts of flights.

Everyone is welcome to suggest other things.

.

 

 

 

[RALF9636 1,966]

4 minutes ago, FS++ said:

And no, I didn't mean this is the end of MCE-PF3 integration.

What I meant, is that nothing new was added, and for now the focus is on getting the few issues you reported sorted.

Well, reading your previous post again, it says exactly that. Blame it on my english.

Quote

Notably...

- FO not switching immediately to tower

- Asking FO to request landing. 

- FO not always catching the very latest caption when asked to reply.

- FO saying "You" when "we" is more appropriate.

The above should be resolved in the patch. Again you never know without doing all sorts of flights.

Will test on my next flight.

[RALF9636 1,966]

On ‎05‎.‎08‎.‎2017 at 9:27 PM, FS++ said:

- Asking FO to request landing. 

- FO not always catching the very latest caption when asked to reply.

I can confirm the above fixed on my last flight. Also "1+F" for Flaps is accepted now in the Airbus-Checklist.

 

Remaining issues on my last flight:

1. FO still witches to Tower (without making contact, which is fine) immediately, when we are told to do so only "when established".

2. FO still repeats the Approach clearance like "continue Approach you're number one for landing", when "we're" would be more appropriate.

3. When I say "request cleared to final at pilot's discretion", the FO says "Tower, request clearance to."

First, it shouldn't be "Tower" because this request (hotkey 1) is made on the other frequencies (whereas it is "request landing" on Tower frequency - which works fine now.). Second, the end of the phrase is missing. It stops with "request clearance to." or " request cleared to." Tested several times. The correct hotkey is sent though. "Request clearance to continue visual" is implemented correctly by the FO.

 

[FS++ 709]

On 8/7/2017 at 8:57 AM, RALF9636 said:

I can confirm the above fixed on my last flight. Also "1+F" for Flaps is accepted now in the Airbus-Checklist.

 

Remaining issues on my last flight:

1. FO still witches to Tower (without making contact, which is fine) immediately, when we are told to do so only "when established".

2. FO still repeats the Approach clearance like "continue Approach you're number one for landing", when "we're" would be more appropriate.

3. When I say "request cleared to final at pilot's discretion", the FO says "Tower, request clearance to."

First, it shouldn't be "Tower" because this request (hotkey 1) is made on the other frequencies (whereas it is "request landing" on Tower frequency - which works fine now.). Second, the end of the phrase is missing. It stops with "request clearance to." or " request cleared to." Tested several times. The correct hotkey is sent though. "Request clearance to continue visual" is implemented correctly by the FO.

 

Should be resolved in this patch

[RALF9636 1,966]

On ‎17‎.‎08‎.‎2017 at 1:33 PM, FS++ said:

Should be resolved in this patch

I still have this issue:

Quote

 

3. When I say "request cleared to final at pilot's discretion", the FO says "Tower, request clearance to."

First, it shouldn't be "Tower" because this request (hotkey 1) is made on the other frequencies (whereas it is "request landing" on Tower frequency - which works fine now.). Second, the end of the phrase is missing. It stops with "request clearance to." or " request cleared to." Tested several times. The correct hotkey is sent though. "Request clearance to continue visual" is implemented correctly by the FO.

 

It is not "Tower" any more, so that is fixed. But the end of the phrase is still missing.

 

Apart from that I had a couple of flawless flights with my MCE-FO, including switching between different "You / I have ATC" - configurations several times.

Very nice!

 

 

[Dirk98 354]

Anxiously following the development. Very much interested.

Thanks to all.

 

 

[FS++ 709]

12 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

I still have this issue:

It is not "Tower" any more, so that is fixed. But the end of the phrase is still missing.

 

Apart from that I had a couple of flawless flights with my MCE-FO, including switching between different "You / I have ATC" - configurations several times.

Very nice!

 

 

Thanks for feedback.

A few adjustments were made to the PTT functionality in latest V2.7.2.6 uploaded yesterday.

Make sure nothing is broken on the ATC side.

Se this thread for changelog

Also keen to know whether your own transmissions to ATC are recognized easily compared to before.

The PTT is really a make or break feature in MCE.

It has to go through a multitude of disable-adjust speech engine-enable cycles and all it takes is one of them not working as planned and you could end-up with losing ability to talk to FO, because the speech engine has taken too long to respond.

In addition, while FO is executing a flow in the background and you happen to be transmitting, each command part of the flow has to check that the commands speech context isn't disabled (otherwise command won't be recognized). The flow is put on hold for an arbitrary time of about 30 seconds, at which point it will resume execution. 

If you ever get into that "FO not responding" situation, press and release DEL and END keys.

Another thing you could do before considering restating MCE mid-flight as a last resort is to disable and re-enable the "Crew Coordination" feature.

 

[RALF9636 1,966]

Haven't tested that latest version yet, but with the version before (almost) all my own ATC commands with PTT held down were transmitted and reacted to properly.

[d.tsakiris 418]

Hello everyone,

just installed 2.7.2.6 and having problems. Using PF3 3.6.0. VFR flight from PHNY to PHLU. As soon as MCE displays the red text "[MCE] Looking for changes...", the sim (P3D V4) freezes (visuals frozen, rain sound still playing). Soon after that happens, the MCE ATC register states "PF3 not connected" (right after start-up, MCE shows the right flight plan).

Any ideas?

Edit: Before 2.7.2.6 was using 2.7.2.0 or .2.1, patched to 2.7.2.5, and wasn't having this problem. Also using TrackIR5, ASP4 & ASCA & UTL.

Another edit: Also happens with ATC mode = Native. Seems to have to do with the keypresses MCE does while initializing...? Using GSX. What else does MCE cycle right after start-up?

[d.tsakiris 418]

I'll open a new topic, as it doesn't seem to be confined to PF3.

[RALF9636 1,966]

Really like the FO commenting on the busy ATC. Nice touch!

Nevertheless it still happens that he starts talking over an AI transmission when there are several AI transmissions in a row.