[07MAY17] The sorts of behaviors that cause me concern...

[romangeber 23]

Thanks for sharing your insights. Pretty much confirms all the things I read about their walled garden approach.

I had little interest in FSW but wishlisted it anyway. After reading this, the last of my interest vanished. It's not much of a message but removing the item from my Steam wishlist (waiting for a sale) is about the only voice I have against their "business model".

I'd encourage anyone annoyed by their approach to do the same.

cu
Roman

[AndyUK 26]

8 minutes ago, romangeber said:

....I'd encourage anyone annoyed by their approach to do the same.

Are we fully aware of what their approach to 3rd party addons is though?  The relevant part of RSR's post seems to be:

"In order to market as an official FSW add-on, you will be able to sell your add-ons on your own store as long as it is made available on the Dovetail channels as well."

On the face of it an "unofficial" addon doesn't have to be sold through Steam or other "Dovetail channel" and the vendor would therefore retain their customary slice of the selling price.  What difference to the end user will there be between an "official" and "unofficial" addon?  I've yet to see that explained anywhere as yet and RSR says himself he's still, or was, waiting to find out.

 

[wedgantilles 76]

38 minutes ago, AndyUK said:

On the face of it an "unofficial" addon doesn't have to be sold through Steam or other "Dovetail channel" and the vendor would therefore retain their customary slice of the selling price.  What difference to the end user will there be between an "official" and "unofficial" addon?  I've yet to see that explained anywhere as yet and RSR says himself he's still, or was, waiting to find out.

That is the main problem it is completely unclear what DTG is actually doing. I mean on one hand they say they are open and won't place any restrictions on third parties and on the other hand they have post that say almost the opposite.

And somehow as an example I've seen that FS FlightControl is actually working with FSW, while there is no SDK in the actual released version of FSW as far as I can say from the EA as I have it. So I really hoppe DTG comes clean about it. It also seems that it is working for FSLabs so everything is kinda strange and unclear.

[MMartinov 48]

Maybe I'm missing something but in the light of the 64b LM Prepar3D v4 imminent release and nearly all major 3rd party developers converting their products (for free) I have the feeling that the dovetail product is pretty much "dead on arrival"... I've seen videos and quite frankly can't see a valid reason to look that way.

[wedgantilles 76]

4 hours ago, MMartinov said:

Maybe I'm missing something but in the light of the 64b LM Prepar3D v4 imminent release and nearly all major 3rd party developers converting their products (for free) I have the feeling that the dovetail product is pretty much "dead on arrival"... I've seen videos and quite frankly can't see a valid reason to look that way.

Not necessarily, I think P3D is not well known from general public as it is a professional software not made for entertainment, there is no real marketing behind it and so on. So I'd say DTG can probably capture a part of the market, which could be enough to sustain the active developement of FSW. It may not get every addons we will have but it still might be of interest for many people. So I would not completely discard it because of this. It may never be interesting for us depending on what they will do, but I don't hink it will fail completely like MS Flight either, seeing they seem to have some good third parties onboard as well.

[Paul_Smith 92]

An alternative interpretation might be the PMDG have invested money, time and PR effort in promising support for 64 bit P3D, and have had the cooperation of LM to be able to deliver on it and now a new (and probably  incompatible) 64bit FSX derivative has hit the consumer market. How does PMDG explain to their regular FSX and FSX:SE customers that their products wont work anymore? And who will pay PMDG to port the products so that they can work? P3D required the purchase of new licences but that was a whole new platform (it even had a different name) but is FSX to FSW really a new platform? more importantly, will it be considered a new platform in the eyes of FSX:SE users?  

No wonder RSR is so annoyed with DTG that he is willing to call them out in public.

[wedgantilles 76]

19 minutes ago, Paul_Smith said:

 And who will pay PMDG to port the products so that they can work?

Who do you think is paying, it's us the customers by purchasing their products. Do you realy think it's Lockheed Martin that payed PMDG to make their addons or to support their sim? If that is the case go back in time searching for roberts discussions about this. It has taken a very long time for product to be on P3D because there were licencing issues/questions. When everything could finally be settled the products were released. That's how it goes. 
 

19 minutes ago, Paul_Smith said:

 P3D required the purchase of new licences but that was a whole new platform (it even had a different name) but is FSX to FSW really a new platform? more importantly, will it be considered a new platform in the eyes of FSX:SE users?  

In what way is it different than FSW ? I have FSX and FSX:SE and I've not had a free upgrae to FSW, just like with P3D it's a new licence you need to purchase.
And in case you don't know P3D as well as FSW are both based on ESP, which they modified each on their sides. So yes P3D is a new plateform over FSX, and yes FSW is a new plateform over FSX as well. The change from 32bits to 64bits is not somethign you can handle lightly, you don't just check a box recompile and it's done. For all we know the SimConenct interface in FSW could also be completely different from the one available with FSX.

[Wobbie 938]

PMDG has already explained to their existing P3D customers, that they will be not be charging upgrade fees

"As we promised back in 2015, customers who have purchased our products for Prepar3D v3 are going to enjoy a free transition to Prepar3D v4 and the advent of 64bit simming technology, as this was already rolled up into the development costs of the product you already purchased.

Beginning on/shortly after the release of Prepar3D v4, we will begin publishing Prepar3D v4 compatible versions of our existing product lines.  We have spent the better part of 2017 thus far working our way through the transition of our existing product line to make the NGX, 777, 747 and DC-6 compatible with the new, Prepar3D v4. 

As of today, we have both the DC-6 and the 747 operating within Prepar3D v4, and we hope to have the 777 completed later this week, with the NGX to follow shortly there-after.

Those who are already customers of our Prepar3D products will be able to obtain these new versions at no cost."

 

FSX & FS:SE are different 32bit sims. As far as I know, at this stage, PMDG is still on the fence with FSW.

Yes, FSX to FSW IS a big move, one comes from Microsoft, the other from DTG & is 64bit, not 32bit like the older sims, & thus MUST be considered a totally separate sim!