J van E

So I bought FSW after all and well, what can I say...

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... :mellow:

 

 

On one hand I feel a bit obliged to say what I don't like about FSW, it feels a bit too easy to not say anything about it, but well, you know... on the other hand I think it is best for everyone if I only say that just before my two hour trial period was over I requested a refund. And I won't take anything back of what I said on this forum during the last few days, based on posts and video's of others. I fear that talking about the last two hours will only offend some of you even more than I already did with my remarks about blinkers and blindness and so on. Adding anything to what I've already said won't do anyone any good and, honestly, it would be a waste of my time. I wasted enough time on FSW already. I don't even want to think about what I didn't like in FSW anymore. In fact, I think it is best, and also fair, that I leave this subforum and not post here at all (at least for quit some time). I will only annoy myself if I keep on coming back here and I will certainly annoy others. I think my posting during the last few days was already on the limit of what is acceptable and I can assure you that my almost two hours experience with FSW didn't help to make posts of mine about FSW more acceptable. Ok, I'll bite my lip and leave it at this.

I might come back to this topic to see if I should say something more after all (just in this topic) but well, let's just say FSW isn't my kind of sim but that it's good to have options and to each his own. :happy:

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1 minute ago, J van E said:

... :mellow:

 

 

On one hand I feel a bit obliged to say what I don't like about FSW, it feels a bit too easy to not say anything about it, but well, you know... on the other hand I think it is best for everyone if I only say that just before my two hour trial period was over I requested a refund. And I won't take anything back of what I said on this forum during the last few days, based on posts and video's of others. I fear that talking about the last two hours will only offend some of you even more than I already did with my remarks about blinkers and blindness and so on. Adding anything to what I've already said won't do anyone any good and, honestly, it would be a waste of my time. I wasted enough time on FSW already. I don't even want to think about what I didn't like in FSW anymore. In fact, I think it is best, and also fair, that I leave this subforum and not post here at all (at least for quit some time). I will only annoy myself if I keep on coming back here and I will certainly annoy others. I think my posting during the last few days was already on the limit of what is acceptable and I can assure you that my almost two hours experience with FSW didn't help to make posts of mine about FSW more acceptable. Ok, I'll bite my lip and leave it at this.

I might come back to this topic to see if I should say something more after all (just in this topic) but well, let's just say FSW isn't my kind of sim but that it's good to have options and to each his own. :happy:

On these forums, some people don't take kindly to trying something, no matter what your experience level in aviation of simulation, and saying there are things you don't like about it. You probably made a wise decision.  

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Well stated, Jeroen. And you too,Bob. I have followed you both in your other posts. The latest video that came out today, on YT, the guy testing one aircraft could not even brake when he landed and slowed down; he had to swap to another aircraft. Hardly convincing a buy I'd say. Still, each to their own. Whatever floats their boats. I'm with you guys on this one----not for me.

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15 minutes ago, vc10man said:

Well stated, Jeroen. And you too,Bob. I have followed you both in your other posts. The latest video that came out today, on YT, the guy testing one aircraft could not even brake when he landed and slowed down; he had to swap to another aircraft. Hardly convincing a buy I'd say. Still, each to their own. Whatever floats their boats. I'm with you guys on this one----not for me.

You're kidding, right?  Do you recall the aircraft bugs when fsx was released?  Heck, most still exist (e.g. CRJ fuel flow, A320 ECAM/auto brakes, 737 reverse lighting in VC, etc, etc, etc...).  One bug. In one aircraft, in an Early Release product, is hardly rational for completely dismissing a sim. BTW, no sim has stock aircraft that look as good, or as detailed as FSW aircraft. Some of the posters in this thread were never going to like it due to monetary and intellectual investments in other platforms. Some bash every sim (not named P3D) every time they get the chance; in doing so, they loose credibility.

FSW is Early Access and 150% cheaper than P3D (for non students).  Instead of dismissing it outright, let's see where it goes. It's only been 72-hrs. Conversely, P3D has been out for 4 years?  I got news for you, it's not 4 years better than FSW. Given the development timelines, FSW is ahead of P3D initiall release.  It you accept that paradigm, it's reasonable to assume that FSW could eclipse P3D at some point, at a fraction of the price. Perhaps that's what bothers the P3D ######?  To be clear, P3D is my current sim; however, I do see merit in FSW.  It depends on where they go from here...

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21 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

You're kidding, right?  Do you recall the aircraft bugs when fsx was released?  Heck, most still exist (e.g. CRJ fuel flow, A320 ECAM/auto brakes, 737 reverse lighting in VC, etc, etc, etc...).  One bug. In one aircraft, in an Early Release product, is hardly rational for completely dismissing a sim. BTW, no sim has stock aircraft that look as good, or as detailed as FSW aircraft. Some of the posters in this thread were never going to like it due to monetary and intellectual investments in other platforms. Some bash every sim (not named P3D) every time they get the chance; in doing so, they loose credibility.

FSW is Early Access and 150% cheaper than P3D (for non students).  Instead of dismissing it outright, let's see where it goes. It's only been 72-hrs. Conversely, P3D has been out for 4 years?  I got news for you, it's not 4 years better than FSW. Given the development timelines, FSW is ahead of P3D initiall release.  It you accept that paradigm, it's reasonable to assume that FSW could eclipse P3D at some point, at a fraction of the price. Perhaps that's what bothers the P3D ######?  To be clear, P3D is my current sim; however, I do see merit in FSW.  It depends on where they go from here...

You are the one that is kidding if you expect DTG to fix 20% of the bugs that are in this sim any time soon. That is not the way DTG works. You will hear things like " This is being looked at". "we are working on that" etc. etc. and the next thing, they are releasing DLC and the bugs are still there. LOL.  You'll see,  

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I don't think it's fair to compare FSW  with fsx , p3d etc,etc. In my opinion, that's what some people here are doing; almost forgetting is a "vanilla" EA software.

   

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I agree with Bob, and I've watched the development/lack thereof of TSW and expect the same level of development with FSW.  More eye candy than detailed/in depth simulation.  I've noticed a suprising amount of similarities with FSX to make me think otherwise with FSW, unfortunately.

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30 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

You're kidding, right?

No, I am not, quite frankly. How long has FSX been around? Precisely. One would have thought that they would have got something like the texture of a runway looking something like a runway instead of a bleached-out look!

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8 minutes ago, vc10man said:

No, I am not, quite frankly. How long has FSX been around? Precisely. One would have thought that they would have got something like the texture of a runway looking something like a runway instead of a bleached-out look!

Again, it's early access. Using your argument, why wasn't P3D itital release perfect?  Do I need to remind you of the pluthera of bugs?  The stock FSX textures? Did you immediately dismiss that platform? You do relize that's based on the same tired ESP...right?  So why isn't P3D development further along?  Heck, in the same video you referenced, the authored referred to P3D as a dressed up FSX.  To that end, These 'arguments' are comical.  Like politics, everyone is taking sides; facts be damned...

Edited by kingm56
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7 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

These 'arguments'

That's precisely the point I am trying to make. I'd have thought given the longevity of FSX, I'd have thought DTG would have learned from all those other platforms that you say also had bugs, etc, etc, and come up with something that far exceeded FSX. There is a substantial division of opinion of the merits and demerits  of FSW. IF it was the 'wow factor some are purporting it to be, we'd all be embracing and welcoming such a new platform wholeheartedly, and dare I say, enthusiastically.

Edited by vc10man
spelling mistake

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21 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

You are the one that is kidding if you expect DTG to fix 20% of the bugs that are in this sim any time soon. That is not the way DTG works. You will hear things like " This is being looked at". "we are working on that" etc. etc. and the next thing, they are releasing DLC and the bugs are still there. LOL.  You'll see,  

I don't use their train simulator, so I'll accept your assertion as fact. However, I'm willing to give them a chance. The initial effort is ok   Remember, if they win, we all win. 

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2 minutes ago, vc10man said:

That's precisely the point I am trying to make. I'd have thought given the longevity of FSX, I'd have thought DTG would have learned from all those other platforms that you say also had bugs, etc, etc, and come up with something that far exceeded FSX. There is a substantial division of opinion of the merits and demerits  of FSW. IF it was the 'wow factor some are purporting it to be, we'd all be embracing and welcoming such a new platform wholeheartedly, and dare I say, enthusiastically.

I don't think we are going to get a 'wow factor' with the realatively small developers in the marketplace.  If Microsoft, Rockstar or EA were making a FS title, I'm sure we would be blown away. However, we don't have that; instead, we have smaller companies with less resources and talent.  We need to adjust our expectations for our niche hobby...

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3 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

Remember, if they win, we all win.

Now, that I applaud. It's the way forward at least.

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6 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

Remember, if they win, we all win. 

A sincere question: What do we win?

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9 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

I don't use their train simulator, so I'll accept your assertion as fact. However, I'm willing to give them a chance. The initial effort is ok   Remember, if they win, we all win. 

I felt the same way as you, and after spending well over $1,000 on Train Sim, and seeing things that were sold a few years ago, that still didn't work and never worked from the day one, I removed it from my HD, and said "enough is enough. Soon after that, I got P3D, and have been happy ever since. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see DTG have a good sim, with things that work and good performance, but frankly I don't think they are a company that will do that. 

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I am on the fence, but since DTG did not go outside the box and create a "new" sim (looks like a whole lot is straight from FSX code), can't get excited based on what they've done thus far.  It is not fair to claim "look how FSX was when it came out" as that was 11 years or so ago.  Also, look at the advances in pc hardware/software technology since 2006.  Just sayin.

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Jeroen .... come home ( P3D ) ...

We will forgive you 

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18 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

A sincere question: What do we win?

I think what most of us crave is for one platform to emerge; something we can all get behind and champion (ala Microsoft FS in its prime). Presently, I'm beginning to think it will be the next iteration of Xplane. After all, it's the only sim not beholden to Microsofts legendary, albeit tired engine. 

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1 hour ago, J van E said:

Ok, I'll bite my lip and leave it at this.

That's a shame, Jeroen. Believe it or not, I was just curious to know your detailed report about what exactly you did not like in FSW, although I suspect that your list would probably be very long. Nonetheless, your report could have been useful for other people who are reading these threads and are still on the fence. Honestly, I have hard time understanding why you decided not to comment after trying FSW having commented so much before doing that. Anyway, your decision.
Also, in all honesty, I have hard time understanding how so many people, in general, decide to try a new simulator, be it FSW, X-Plane 11, AeroFly FS2 whatever, and then uninstall it after a couple of hours. Maybe it's me who is too stupid to understand, but again, this is anyone's decision.

Apologies if anything I said here or in the other thread hurt you or made you feel someway forced to do something you were not comfortable to do. That was not my intention. I think you know this, but I just wanted to make it clear again.

Regards
Filippo

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34 minutes ago, beechcaptain said:

I am on the fence, but since DTG did not go outside the box and create a "new" sim (looks like a whole lot is straight from FSX code), can't get excited based on what they've done thus far.  It is not fair to claim "look how FSX was when it came out" as that was 11 years or so ago.  Also, look at the advances in pc hardware/software technology since 2006.  Just sayin.

DTG acquired the rights to the FSX code only two years ago. They haven't worked on this FSW any longer. Or do you expect them to do eleven years of development in that time?

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40 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Jeroen .... come home ( P3D ) ...

We will forgive you 

Hey, don't speak for all of us! LOL Seriously, have all the fun you can get with Aerofly 2.

I figured you wouldn't like FSW Jeroen, that wasn't that hard :biggrin:. To be honest I also asked for a refund and purchased some airports for P3D instead. But I'll keep following further development of FSW and I may very well purchase it again when a release version is available. I still have high hopes DTG will deliver in the end.

Edited by Rimshot

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56 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

Again, it's early access. Using your argument, why wasn't P3D itital release perfect?  Do I need to remind you of the pluthera of bugs?  The stock FSX textures? Did you immediately dismiss that platform? You do relize that's based on the same tired ESP...right?  So why isn't P3D development further along?  Heck, in the same video you referenced, the authored referred to P3D as a dressed up FSX.  To that end, These 'arguments' are comical.  Like politics, everyone is taking sides; facts be damned...

I'm just curious as to why you appear so agitated? Surely everyone is entitled to express their opinion in a respectful way, which has been done in this thread, even if it differs to yours?

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I think many of us have a very strong memory of how differences of opinion devolved into such acrimony that the original FLIGHT forum had to be shut down. I think a lot of us don't wanna ever go there again.

Believe me, I've been biting my lip pretty hard as well, but I don't believe the questions I have are worth the probable blowback. I respect Jeroens decision, and only hope I can stick to my similar decision.

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21 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

I think what most of us crave is for one platform to emerge; something we can all get behind and champion (ala Microsoft FS in its prime). Presently, I'm beginning to think it will be the next iteration of Xplane. After all, it's the only sim not beholden to Microsofts legendary, albeit tired engine. 

I have heard exactly what you just stated since the days of FS2004, and it still hasn't happened. 

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32 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

I think what most of us crave is for one platform to emerge; something we can all get behind and champion (ala Microsoft FS in its prime). Presently, I'm beginning to think it will be the next iteration of Xplane. After all, it's the only sim not beholden to Microsofts legendary, albeit tired engine. 

Well, there is also Aerofly FS2, although the target market seems to be different than X-Plane.

Personally, I'm open to all options. I choose one of these current options as my main sim, but I'll happily fly anything that gives me something I'm not getting there. I'm just not seeing it at the moment in FSW, because my main thing is lower-level flight in bush planes, vintage radials and helicopters. Neither the planes nor the scenery are doing anything for me right now with what I've seen in user videos. 

I am interested to see what FSW does with weather, just as a basis for comparison with other sims, and as a goad for progress in areas that are lacking. But it will have to look better in other areas before I'll try it. There is no point in saying "Look, even FSW does weather better than you" if the rest of it doesn't hold up as a reasonable comparison.

Edited by Paraffin

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