MindYerBeak

click APR and down it goes

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I was cleared for 7R in LEBL. I clicked  APR, the  ac banked right and went down like a brick.

 

Anyone had this happen yet ?

 

Thanks

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3 hours ago, MindYerBeak said:

I was cleared for 7R in LEBL. I clicked  APR, the  ac banked right and went down like a brick.

 

Anyone had this happen yet ?

 

Thanks

Was just on approach to 7L at KPHX.  Was on the localizer under APR,  as the glideslope centered no descent.  So I did exactly as you did and pressed the APR button again.... yup I got the same results.  NOPE not today Otto, hand flew it in for a normal landing albeit very confused what that was all about.....Am I (or we) doing something wrong?

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Here's the deal (and it's the same for the CJ2 and C90 GTX). When you're in FMS/NAV mode, switching the FMS/LOC1 preset button on the PFD does not disengage FMS/NAV and turn lateral guidance over to VLOC as you would expect. You have to actually click the FMS/NAV button on the AP to terminate FMS/NAV mode, tooltip should say "off". After you've done that VLOC AP functions should behave normally.

Try this, let the FMS guide you onto the approach path several miles out with your ILS freq all set up and ready. You should be level and holding your FAF crossing altitude or descending towards it in any ALT mode except VNAV (because VNAV is tied to FMS/NAV and you'll lose vertical guidance when you terminate FMS/NAV). Now - click the NAV button on the AP to terminate FMS/NAV mode, hit the LOC1 preset on the PFD and click the APPR button on the AP. That should cause it to follow the localizer/ glideslope right to the runway.

Not saying it's correct but... :smile:

Jim

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13 hours ago, Jim Robinson said:

Here's the deal (and it's the same for the CJ2 and C90 GTX). When you're in FMS/NAV mode, switching the FMS/LOC1 preset button on the PFD does not disengage FMS/NAV and turn lateral guidance over to VLOC as you would expect. You have to actually click the FMS/NAV button on the AP to terminate FMS/NAV mode, tooltip should say "off". After you've done that VLOC AP functions should behave normally.

Try this, let the FMS guide you onto the approach path several miles out with your ILS freq all set up and ready. You should be level and holding your FAF crossing altitude or descending towards it in any ALT mode except VNAV (because VNAV is tied to FMS/NAV and you'll lose vertical guidance when you terminate FMS/NAV). Now - click the NAV button on the AP to terminate FMS/NAV mode, hit the LOC1 preset on the PFD and click the APPR button on the AP. That should cause it to follow the localizer/ glideslope right to the runway.

Not saying it's correct but... :smile:

Jim

This worked for me!

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Excellent.  I will include this workaround in the review.

Regards,

Ray

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5 hours ago, Novej757 said:

This worked for me!

Glad to hear that! :smile:

Working on some screenshots for you Ray. I need to do a couple more flights though, maybe try for some better lighting. I'll get a package together for you in a day or so.

Jim

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On 6/15/2017 at 6:32 AM, raymar said:

Excellent.  I will include this workaround in the review.

Regards,

Ray

Workaround.... pretty much need a lot of those in Carenado addon.

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I don't know why Carenado just doesn't use the default FS autopilot. I understand the attempt at realism, but after numerous airplanes where the AP doesn't work, maybe it's time to rethink things. 

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23 hours ago, eelb said:

I don't know why Carenado just doesn't use the default FS autopilot. I understand the attempt at realism, but after numerous airplanes where the AP doesn't work, maybe it's time to rethink things. 

The FS doesn't really have a "default autopilot" as such.  It has simulator variables that can be commanded to activate various autopilot functions.   But to my knowledge there is no provision such that a developer could command the simulator to activate an integrated autopilot, even a very simple one, that will work with his airplane without significant effort.

The real problem is the assumptions that were used by the Microsoft developers when they built the original autopilot provisions.  I have tried unsuccessfully to "rebuild" several Carenado autopilots to make them work accurate to their real world counterparts.  Initially, it looks easy to do.  But once you get into it, you find that some of the variables needed to make it work properly are not present in FSX/P3D.  Even the very, very simple Altimatic IIIC autopilot in the Carenado Shrike Commander can't be made to work properly because of erroneous assumptions and restrictions in the simulator's autopilot functions.

The alternative is to build the autopilot from scratch outside the simulator's autopilot provisions.  That might be more onerous than coding the airplane itself.  The $40 Carenado general aviation airplane would likely become a $100 general aviation airplane.  And Carenado probably doesn't believe they could sell it.  

I am sometimes just as disappointed in Carenado's systems as the next guy.  But after having tried to correct some of them myself I find the same problems they find when they are initially developing an add-on.  Sometimes the "hooks" required to properly duplicate a real-world system are just not provided by the simulator.  So...they do the best they can.  If they thought they could get $100 a pop for their airplanes they would probably go outside the simulator and build their own systems like Milviz, A2A, PMDG, and the like.  But I don't think they could get that much and I don't think they think they could get that much.         

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Thanks for the post. Most interesting view.

Regards,

Ray

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18 hours ago, whamil77 said:

The FS doesn't really have a "default autopilot" as such.  It has simulator variables that can be commanded to activate various autopilot functions.   But to my knowledge there is no provision such that a developer could command the simulator to activate an integrated autopilot, even a very simple one, that will work with his airplane without significant effort.

The real problem is the assumptions that were used by the Microsoft developers when they built the original autopilot provisions.  I have tried unsuccessfully to "rebuild" several Carenado autopilots to make them work accurate to their real world counterparts.  Initially, it looks easy to do.  But once you get into it, you find that some of the variables needed to make it work properly are not present in FSX/P3D.  Even the very, very simple Altimatic IIIC autopilot in the Carenado Shrike Commander can't be made to work properly because of erroneous assumptions and restrictions in the simulator's autopilot functions.

The alternative is to build the autopilot from scratch outside the simulator's autopilot provisions.  That might be more onerous than coding the airplane itself.  The $40 Carenado general aviation airplane would likely become a $100 general aviation airplane.  And Carenado probably doesn't believe they could sell it.  

I am sometimes just as disappointed in Carenado's systems as the next guy.  But after having tried to correct some of them myself I find the same problems they find when they are initially developing an add-on.  Sometimes the "hooks" required to properly duplicate a real-world system are just not provided by the simulator.  So...they do the best they can.  If they thought they could get $100 a pop for their airplanes they would probably go outside the simulator and build their own systems like Milviz, A2A, PMDG, and the like.  But I don't think they could get that much and I don't think they think they could get that much.         

What I mean by "default autopilot", is as you state, certain parameters in  MSFS limit how much the AP can be modified. In the past one could always design an airplane, and use whatever MS had as an AP in that particular type aircraft. If you designed a business jet, whatever AP values were in the MS Lear, is what you used. This seemed to work fine through multiple generations of sims, until designers started to get cute in the name of realism. So we end up with these FUBAR AP's like Carenado's.

I've found you can stick about any AP in any airplane using a panel editor and it will work. The stock MS King Air is my AP of choice.

At the end of the day, all you need is HDG, ALT, NAV, APR, VS, and a way to switch NAV between VOR/LOC and GPS. All the rest is just eye candy if it doesn't work properly.

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Ignore this post I figured out my problem................ I really need a GTN integrated in this thing LOL

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