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CaptainLars

WXR Anomaly?

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Hi all,

I think this could possibly an anomaly of the WXR function: At 160nm zoom ("80" in the middle), there appear green shadows in a distance around 40nm (first ring) ahead. When I zoom in now to take a closer look ("40" in the middle), the green shadows would have to appear at the second ring (40), right? But instead, they appear around the fourth ring (80nm). This puzzles me.

I include some screenshots:

WXR_Anomalie_1.jpg


WXR_Anomalie_2.jpg


WXR_Anomalie_3.jpg

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Best place for this is in HiFi forum.  PMDG is simply the messenger for the radar data provided by the HiFi product.  I can add that it is very normal for the active sky products to paint light green returns for only one or two sweeps then gone.

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I waited for the new refresh. The reflections initially go away when you change the radius, so you have to wait for the new refresh anyways.

I checked it further. Radius 160 seems to be the only defective radius.

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Hi, in the meantime I was able to investigate further on this issue. No I didn't take it to HiFi Sim so far, because I have the impression this could be related to the 777.

What I found out is the following: It works correctly even in the defective 160nm radius if BOTH NDs show the same range. If one of the NDs, no matter which, shows a bigger range, the other display, the one where a 160nm range is set, will display the weather as if it was set to a 320nm range display. In turn, when one display is set to show a smaller range of, e. g., 80nm, the other display will continue to show the weather with the correct range calibration.

All in P3D v3.4. I appreciate any comments or suggestions. Perhaps I should open up a support ticket at PMDG.

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From what you describe, it does indeed sound like something PMDG should take a look. I suggest you file a ticket.

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3 hours ago, CaptainLars said:

Hi, in the meantime I was able to investigate further on this issue. No I didn't take it to HiFi Sim so far, because I have the impression this could be related to the 777.

What I found out is the following: It works correctly even in the defective 160nm radius if BOTH NDs show the same range. If one of the NDs, no matter which, shows a bigger range, the other display, the one where a 160nm range is set, will display the weather as if it was set to a 320nm range display. In turn, when one display is set to show a smaller range of, e. g., 80nm, the other display will continue to show the weather with the correct range calibration.

All in P3D v3.4. I appreciate any comments or suggestions. Perhaps I should open up a support ticket at PMDG.

When the ND is set at 160nm have you tried lowering the radar angle a degree or 2?

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I have the radar angle at auto most of the time, and I have made sure that a different angle is not the cause.

The problem is, however, not always (just mostly) reproduceable. E. g., on my current 77W flight LSZH-CYVR, it was not working properly a few hours ago before I posted, but right in this moment, it works. I can switch back and forth ranges and it displays correctly. Hmm, this is really strange.

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When I resumed this same flight yesterday, the bug was instantly there again. So that everybody can better understand what I am talking of, I made a video of this bug and uploaded it on Youtube.

Here's what I mean: 

Stages of the Range Display Bug in this video:

00:00 Cpt side 320nm range, precip at ~80nm | FO side 160nm range, precip at ~40nm
00:11 Cpt side switched to 160nm range, precip first displayed at ~40nm, next sweep displays precip at ~80nm on both sides
00:42 FO side switched to 80nm range, precip displayed correctly
01:00 FO side witched to 320nm range, precip displayed correctly
01:16 Cpt side next sweep displays precip at ~40nm
01:34 Cpt side switched to 320nm range

 

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I have a hard time seeing what's wrong from that video, to be honest... 

When the video first starts, the displays are indeed wrong, but it corrects itself at the next sweep - so that could be explained by updating the screens... after which, it appears correct... I'm a little unsure regarding the end. Maybe I'm reading it wrong - and/or maybe it's just too late for me here... 

EDIT: Okay - there's an anomaly at the beginning (at 00:00 where CPT side is 160nm and FO is 80nm). Don't know what's going on there - but otherwise... well...

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It's quite easy: the detected precipitation ist at ~80nm, not at ~40nm. When it displays 40nm, it's wrong. It's wrong from the beginning to 00:29, when it get's updated. It's correct between 00:29 and 01:16. It's wrong unto the last sweep close to the end.

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4 hours ago, CaptainLars said:

Submitting a ticket, this bug persists.

I recommend you discuss this problem with HiFi, I don't think PMDG does anything with the radar data provided by the wx engine. They just display what they are given.

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4 hours ago, downscc said:

I recommend you discuss this problem with HiFi, I don't think PMDG does anything with the radar data provided by the wx engine. They just display what they are given.

OK, I did so, perhaps something happens.

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19 hours ago, downscc said:

I recommend you discuss this problem with HiFi, I don't think PMDG does anything with the radar data provided by the wx engine. They just display what they are given.

I imagine PMDG must at least scale it to the selected ND range, and that is where the problem is. At one point the Capt's WXR changes when the F/O ND range changes, then it reverts next sweep.

Edit,

I just tried this myself (in P3Dv4) and found no problem with ND range changes. The WXR picture on both NDs behaved correctly and independently. The only difference was I was on ground (in a rain storm at EHAM), not flying, to make testing easier. Hard to explain why it doesn't work in the OP's case, but hopefully PMDG have the answer.

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On 29.9.2017 at 6:28 PM, kevinh said:

I imagine PMDG must at least scale it to the selected ND range, and that is where the problem is. At one point the Capt's WXR changes when the F/O ND range changes, then it reverts next sweep.

Exactly. The weather itself doesn't change its scale, just the representation on the display. I submitted a ticket to HiFi Sim, let's see what happens, but they already stated that it would be unlikely an AS issue.

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I have submitted a ticket at HiFi and that's the answer that I received from Damian Clak. So as you can see, it really seems to be an Active Sky issue.

Quote

After reviewing and discussing with our Lead Programmer, we have determined this to be a limitation/issue with the dual ND/radar use in a single radar API capability that we have currently (with some tricks to support dual display). We are in the works of improving this and our improvements will inherently resolve this kind of issue. Thanks for your patience while we work this out.

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Interesting response.  I never considered the implications of dual displays and impact on scaling data. Thanks for posting Lars.

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