Thanks for that very interesting post, Alan. Indeed food for thought.

I have to dwell on the hardware costs, specially the GPU, having just shelled out not too long ago for an EVGA GTX970, and not too long later, to make the equation work in P3Dv4, I face the added costs of a choice between the 1070/1080 family, before I can even think of de-lidded CPUs, MoBos, RAM, etc.

I find myself asking 'Is there no end to this cycle of upgrading, and where does it end?'. Maybe I should just call it quits and stick to FSX-SE and its limitations and age, or just quit flightsimming altogether.

38 minutes ago, vc10man said:

Thanks for that very interesting post, Alan. Indeed food for thought.

I have to dwell on the hardware costs, specially the GPU, having just shelled out not too long ago for an EVGA GTX970, and not too long later, to make the equation work in P3Dv4, I face the added costs of a choice between the 1070/1080 family, before I can even think of de-lidded CPUs, MoBos, RAM, etc.

I find myself asking 'Is there no end to this cycle of upgrading, and where does it end?'. Maybe I should just call it quits and stick to FSX-SE and its limitations and age, or just quit flightsimming altogether.

Hey Rick,

Take it from a fellow long-time simmer....this is NOT the time to quit flightsimming....in fact it is the best time we've ever had to be simmers!

To put your mind at ease about hardware upgrades and V4....let me tell you what I'm running it on as smoothly as I've ever seen a flightsim run:

1. 4790k OC to 4.5
2. 16gb of the slowest DDR3 ram out there
3. 500GB SSD
4. GTX 970! (really)  The same one as you (EVGA)
5. 55inch LG 4k tv running at 3849x2060 (one step lower version of full 4k)
6. I run ORBX FTC global, Southern Cal and flightbeam KSFO and FSDT KLAX in my very frequent flights in and out of California.

I don't have my sliders all the way to the right, but much further than they've ever been in P3d V3 or...gulp....FSX (I can't even look at FSX anymore thinking I'm one texture load away from an OOM).  Which brings up another very important point about V4...no more OOMs...and running aircraft/scenery combos that were certain OOMs in previous sims.

Some comparisons:

With FSX or P3d V3 flying to KLAX using the SEAVU arrival shooting the gap between the 2 gorgeous mountain ranges (I fly this route frequently in real life and the sim) with the scenery listed in item 6 above and my choice of a PMDG bird (usually the NGX as that is my normal mount in real life):  When ORBX So Cal scenery loaded....there was a decrease in smoothness, annoying but not enough to make me want to run out and buy a $700-800 video card. 

With P3d V4 and the same scenario: Absolutely butter smooth, no noticeable slowdown at all, except for the huge texture load when KLAX comes in range, but even still with previous sims....very noticeable. V4...I thought I actually blinked too long the 1st few times and missed it, it wasn't until my 3rd trip to KLAX where I actually noticed the texture load pause in V4 (not sure if that will ever go completely away until devs and Lockheed come up with optimized ways to pre-load scenery)

You may have noticed I've taken a break from painting ...it's mainly because V4 has completely rekindled my passion for flying (over painting), and I literally can't stop flying in V4!  I just completed a KLAX to Taiwan (RCTP) flight in the PMDG 747, and landing at the very complex and gorgeous PACSIM RCTP...not a hitch, stutter and most importantly...no worry about an OOM after a 14 hour flight, ever again!

Do yourself a favor and get V4, try it for 59 days on your existing hardware, and if you don't share the same excitement I attempted to convey with my wordy reply...just return it for a full refund.

As far as I know, it installs and runs fine side by side with both FSX and V3.  I removed V3 before I installed it, and still have FSX:SE installed on my system, but only because I'm too lazy (and good with disk space) to remove it.

 

3 hours ago, Steve Dra said:

To put your mind at ease about hardware upgrades and V4....let me tell you what I'm running it on as smoothly as I've ever seen a flightsim run:

To be honest, these are almost exactly the specs of my old system, and I thought seriously about keeping it for P3D4 and not building a new one.  I decided to do a new build because I had a window where I was able to pull it off financially, and since that was the case, I thought I'd take advantage of some of the new technology that came along with the Z270 motherboards (like fast DDR4 RAM).  I was aiming for future-proofing, and I'm sure I over-specced the build for what I need now.  In fact, I'm not close to pushing all sliders to the right - my settings are mostly what they were for P3D3.  

@Rick - I think you'd do fine with P3D4 and a system along the lines Steve describes.  You won't be able to run it flat out but then, you probably wouldn't be able to do that even on a system built around a 7700K.  Why not jump in with the system you've got, and see how it does for you?  P3D performance in v4 is as smooth as Steve describes.

@Steve and @Alan

One of the reasons this particular Forum flourishes is because of the warm camaraderie it displays to fellow-members.

Your two posts are so encouraging, it now spurs a re-think for me. And your repaints, Steve, are superlative. I like some of the 747 stuff you have done. Truly an artist.

Thanks, guys.

8 hours ago, Alan_A said:

and I thought seriously about keeping it for P3D4 and not building a new one

Hey Alan, don't get me wrong that I'm completely content with the system I have...I, like most of us crazy simmers, I'm always looking for the best tech I can put into my system to squeeze every frame I can out of her.  However the message I hoped to convey to those on the fence about V4 is that this release is the first new sim in our simming history that actually runs better on your current hardware off the shelf...whereas my progressive moves from Sublogic ATP, FS2,3,95, 98, 2000, 2004, etc usually required us to upgrade hardware to get the performance we needed.

I've seen too many of our fellow simmers comment in these forums that they're waiting to upgrade to better machines before upgrading to V4.  So conditioned we've become to the old, sim  upgrade routine that most just accept they're machines are woefully inadequate to run V4 even when other, long-long time simmers like me are saying V4 is literally simming nirvana, even with current hardware.

The final item in what should be a decision-free process is that will cost you nothing (except some time) is to try it for 59 days on your system...and then you can make your own, system-specific decision because you would have run it on your system vs relying on what others are telling how it runs on their system.

I almost want to compare this to Nvidia giving you a prototype of a new card that runs better than a 1080Ti on a 400w power supply for 59 days to try for free.  Who's not going to want to try that?

Anyway, I can only do so much to try and help my fellow simmers move to an exponentially better simming experience than they've experienced in any platform upgrade, the rest is up to them...and I have a long flight back across the Pacific to plan for.

7 hours ago, vc10man said:

One of the reasons this particular Forum flourishes is because of the warm camaraderie it displays to fellow-members.

Totally agree Rick!

7 hours ago, vc10man said:

And your repaints, Steve, are superlative. I like some of the 747 stuff you have done. Truly an artist.

Thanks Rick! I love painting the 747...quite the canvas to paint on.  There are so many artist's that have painted her, in fact I'm planning my trip back to KSFO on one of John's paints.

Hi Steve

You ever thought of being a courtroom lawyer, because you have just 'sold' me on the idea of making that P3D v4 purchase tonight? Cannot counter your logic and argument. Well stated.

You have hit it on the nail as I have read posts here that made me feel my Haswell i5-4790K+16Gb DDR3+EVGA GTX970 was not even going to make first base, let alone a homer, and that more or less made me decide that I either upgraded, or called it quits.

12 minutes ago, vc10man said:

You ever thought of being a courtroom lawyer, because you have just 'sold' me on the idea of making that P3D v4 purchase tonight? Cannot counter your logic and argument. Well stated.

Wouldn't that be more of a car salesman?

10 minutes ago, Captain Kevin said:

Wouldn't that be more of a car salesman?

Not necessarily. A car salesman would be trying to flog me a car when I may be looking to buy another  car or maybe my very first car; Steve was countering my scepticism towards P3Dv4, with a logical argument(ala courtrooms), and it was meant as a light-hearted compliment to him.

14 minutes ago, vc10man said:

it was meant as a light-hearted compliment to him.

I figured as much, I guess I was thinking in the sense that he was trying to sell you something. I don't know.

19 minutes ago, Captain Kevin said:

I figured as much, I guess I was thinking in the sense that he was trying to sell you something. I don't know.

I'm just trying to sell all my sim-buddies on the fact that the V4 experience for me has been the best thing that I've ever encountered since I started simming.

For example, this shot, in V4 its butter-smooth, no stutters, no frame-rate drop.  In previous sim versions when my weather package would load up a ton of thick clouds...well you know the outcome.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/514140-atlas-retro-paint/?do=findComment&comment=3668575

Also, flying through clouds with no stutters and breaking out on top is almost a religious experience now. 

 

Hey Rick,

Your statement about thinking of quitting the hobby we both been in for so long just saddened me.  There are some simmers that I've virtually interacted with thoughout the years and enjoy their virtual company.   You're one of those and the thought of you or any of the fine contributors here leaving the hobby, especially at what I consider the greatest time to be a simmer is just a travesty in my book.  So I'll do all the selling I can to keep you here (and I'd never sell a product I don't believe in).

And Kevin, man I've virtually known you since before your teenage years back when you kept us all entertained over at the flightsim forums with your personal airline stories and screenshots.

It's so cool to see how you've grown-up and now driving a big-rig all across the country.  Your VA paint scheme has vastly improved over the years as well. 

Wow, this thread just keeps getting better and better to read.

Thanks for the nice words, Steve. Likewise, to you. I may have not interacted with you a great deal but I respect and admire anyone with repaint talents like you and others like John have.

7 hours ago, Steve Dra said:

And Kevin, man I've virtually known you since before your teenage years back when you kept us all entertained over at the flightsim forums with your personal airline stories and screenshots.

It's so cool to see how you've grown-up and now driving a big-rig all across the country.  Your VA paint scheme has vastly improved over the years as well. 

Okay, I knew there were a lot of people around on the forums back then, but I have no memory of the majority of them. I think the only few I remember are most of the ones from the Project Opensky days, as most of them are also in the TDS Facebook groups that they have. Think my old age might be getting to me, as I have the memory of a waffle. I wish I had more time to fly, but as you can imagine, with a job like this, my time is severely limited. I only really get time to fly when I'm at home.

For what it's worth, I'd be surprised if you or anyone else on the forums have known me since before my teenage years, given that I was never even on any of the forums until 2003, and according to my math, I would have been 13 at the time.

@Steve

Finally, thanks to your persuasiveness, pulled the trigger and made the buy last night. 12Gb download. Wow!

Now to get my P3Dv 4 PMDGs except the OOTS II which I have in FSX only. And FSLs.

 

Rick,

I hope that you will not regret this positive move!

Richard, I have 3-4 quality aircraft to get me launched and keep me occupied.Hopefully the FSX UK2000, FSDT, Fly Tampa, sceneries will have updates/upgrades to v4. Boy, this is getting to be an expensive hobby! Just hope it pans out for the future.