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Marius_S

Starting engines

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I found this link for a USAF POH: http://aviationarchives.blogspot.dk/2016/11/douglas-c-118avc-118a-flight-manual.html

 

Start sequence on PDF page 90:

1. Boost pump - No. 3 Low

2. Engine selector to - No. 3

3. Starter & safety - Hold

4. Ignition - No. 3 to Both after 9 Blades

5. Boost -  On (normally straight after ignition to both)

6. Primer - As Required

When Engine catches...

7. Prime - In order to hold 800-1000 RPM and stabilise

8. Mixture - No.3 Auto rich

9. Throttle - 3 Adjust for 800-900 RPM

10. Boost pump - No 3 Off

 

This though will not work on the PMDG DC-6B, since the primer isn´t truely simulated and therefor waiting moving the mixture lever from cut-off to Auto Rich won´t work.

The "adapted" version I posted earlier in this thread does work and isn´t so far from this.

 


System: i7-10700K, 32GB RAM, RTX2070S 8GB, 1TB SSD, 2 TB HDD, Win10 64bit Home

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7 hours ago, Alan_A said:

Well, I'm getting nowhere.  Engine cranks but won't catch.  This happens with and without realistic start.  If I set ready to taxi, engines are running fine.  So this has to be a problem in my setup - maybe a hardware issue.  I don't want to trouble PMDG with a ticket yet, not 'til I've run everything down.  Will keep working the problem.

 

I'm Having the exact same issue Alan. I try to start with realistic start on and off and I cannot get the engines going. I follow all the different methods described here. I'm familiar with starting radials in the Connie etc and have no problem there. I personally think this is a hardware issue relating to FSUIPC. 

The engine I'm trying to start fires and the RPM gauge rises to just under 1000RPM and then instantly drops back down to nothing no matter what I do.

 

I must admit I'm still a bit confused as to how we should be setting up the controls in FSUIPC. I've never had these issues before and always used FSUIPC the way I've used it with all my birds. I'm really not sure what people mean when they say assign axis in the sim and let FSUIPC process it. Can anyone explain the process of setting this up in dummy terms?.

 

At the moment the only way I can get her up and running is using the ready to taxi option in the ramp manager.

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4 hours ago, JRS182 said:

The engine I'm trying to start fires and the RPM gauge rises to just under 1000RPM and then instantly drops back down to nothing no matter what I do.

 

It is probably something simple... for example, opening the throttles 1-inch might be better stated to move throttles to where edge of lever is just behind the rivets.  With engines running, note position of levers to maintain 1000 RPM.  Start with throttles in that position.  Another reason for engine giving up after catching is not getting the mixture lever to auto rich quickly enough.


Dan Downs KCRP

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1 minute ago, downscc said:

It is probably something simple... for example, opening the throttles 1-inch might be better stated to move throttles to where edge of lever is just behind the rivets.  With engines running, note position of levers to maintain 1000 RPM.  Start with throttles in that position.  Another reason for engine giving up after catching is not getting the mixture lever to auto rich quickly enough.

Thanks for the tips. I'll keep persisting however I still think there is an underlying issue. I've also tried the method of leaving the lever at auto rich before even starting and it still wont start.

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12 hours ago, Olympic260 said:

Where the trottle levers are when you try to start the engines?

Have been trying a variety of positions - I've accepted the AFE's setting while leaving my hardware throttle at the idle stop, I've tried advancing the hardware throttle, I've tried jockeying the throttle.  No luck.

I'm nevertheless wondering if my hardware isn't dueling with the AFE somehow.  Not using FSUIPC - controls are enabled in P3D4 - so that's not the issue.

I think I'll follow Dan's suggestion (below) and see where the throttles are set when I select "ready to taxi," and then try to duplicate that.

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5 hours ago, JRS182 said:

I must admit I'm still a bit confused as to how we should be setting up the controls in FSUIPC.

Since FSUIPC calibration isn't recommended, I've dropped it - I currently have controllers enabled in P3D4, and I've set up a profile for the DC-6 - single throttle lever to control all four engines, and I've made sure to delete the mixture axis.  Though I'm wondering if there isn't some other setting in FSUIPC that's getting in the way - might try removing it altogether to see how that works.

Like you, I've had no problems in the Connie - I loaded it up last night and ran through a series of starts on primer and they went fine.  So I could tell myself that my technique is OK, but maybe a different technique applies here.

Will keep exploring.

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10 minutes ago, Alan_A said:

Since FSUIPC calibration isn't recommended, I've dropped it - I currently have controllers enabled in P3D4, and I've set up a profile for the DC-6 - single throttle lever to control all four engines, and I've made sure to delete the mixture axis.  Though I'm wondering if there isn't some other setting in FSUIPC that's getting in the way - might try removing it altogether to see how that works.

Like you, I've had no problems in the Connie - I loaded it up last night and ran through a series of starts on primer and they went fine.  So I could tell myself that my technique is OK, but maybe a different technique applies here.

Will keep exploring.

Ah ok, so we can probably illiminate the problem any problems with fsuipc. Strange thing was when I first installed the Dc6 I started it a few times on my own with no problems. Just out of interest do you load the dc6 into the sim with the engines running and then hit the cold and dark button in the ramp manager?? or is your default flight something like the cub with its engines off so when you load the dc6 in from the scenario screen the engines are automatically off?. I'm wondering if this is what I'm doing differently. As when I first installed it, i was loading it in with the engines running and hitting the C&D button but now I'm loading it in with the engines off.

Probably not the problem but I do wonder and I'm going to test that theory.

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42 minutes ago, JRS182 said:

Just out of interest do you load the dc6 into the sim with the engines running and then hit the cold and dark button in the ramp manager?? or is your default flight something like the cub with its engines off so when you load the dc6 in from the scenario screen the engines are automatically off?

My default flight is cold and dark, so the DC-6 loads in that state without my having to select it.  Interesting observation - I wonder if that's the common element.  I haven't had a chance to do any testing yet but will try loading it over an engines-running flight and see if that makes a difference.

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15 minutes ago, Alan_A said:

My default flight is cold and dark, so the DC-6 loads in that state without my having to select it.  Interesting observation - I wonder if that's the common element.  I haven't had a chance to do any testing yet but will try loading it over an engines-running flight and see if that makes a difference.

I just reverted my default scenario to the default Prepar3D one, restarted Prepar3D, loaded in the DC6 with the engines running, hit the C&D button, did my preflight checks and fired the engines up straight away :D

Try it and see if it works for you.

Also noticed a small bug, the water injection switches make an audible click when you turn them on but they have no sound when turning them off. Just saying in case any of the PMDG officials see this they may want to check it out. Unless its supposed to be like that.

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1 hour ago, JRS182 said:

I just reverted my default scenario to the default Prepar3D one, restarted Prepar3D, loaded in the DC6 with the engines running, hit the C&D button, did my preflight checks and fired the engines up straight away :D

Try it and see if it works for you.

Yep, that was the answer.

I loaded my default (cold and dark) flight, started the engines with CTL + E, then loaded the DC-6 (with engines running), and selected "cold and dark."  Chose the realistic engine start, followed procedure and got all engines running with no problems at all.  Number 2 balked on the first attempt but that was a standard radial-engine thing - it was fine on the second attempt.

So... many, many thanks for figuring that out and giving the rest of us a direction to go in.

I'm wondering if PMDG might want to add a note to the intro manual that the aircraft needs to be loaded over an engines-running default flight - or at least not loaded straight into the sim if the default flight is cold and dark.  I could be wrong, but I don't think it's uncommon to set up a cold-and-dark default flight - it's something I've always done.

Even better would be a tweak so that a cold-and-dark setup doesn't get in the way of an engine start - but of course that's a luxury request and maybe not possible.  I have no idea how much programming would be involved, so maybe it's not a reasonable ask.  If not, then loading over an engines-running flight is an effective workaround.  But it'd be good to have a heads-up about it.

Haven't had to check out the water-injection switch sounds - will try that out later.

Now, back to flying.

 

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No problem at all, I'm glad the solution worked for you as well.

I'm sure PMDG will be able to address this issue somehow in an update. This may be the problem for many people who can't start their engines, hopefully they'll stumble across this thread and figure it out.

 

Enjoy your flying! 

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52 minutes ago, Alan_A said:

Yep, that was the answer.

I loaded my default (cold and dark) flight, started the engines with CTL + E, then loaded the DC-6 (with engines running), and selected "cold and dark."  Chose the realistic engine start, followed procedure and got all engines running with no problems at all.  Number 2 balked on the first attempt but that was a standard radial-engine thing - it was fine on the second attempt.

So... many, many thanks for figuring that out and giving the rest of us a direction to go in.

I'm wondering if PMDG might want to add a note to the intro manual that the aircraft needs to be loaded over an engines-running default flight - or at least not loaded straight into the sim if the default flight is cold and dark.  I could be wrong, but I don't think it's uncommon to set up a cold-and-dark default flight - it's something I've always done.

Even better would be a tweak so that a cold-and-dark setup doesn't get in the way of an engine start - but of course that's a luxury request and maybe not possible.  I have no idea how much programming would be involved, so maybe it's not a reasonable ask.  If not, then loading over an engines-running flight is an effective workaround.  But it'd be good to have a heads-up about it.

Haven't had to check out the water-injection switch sounds - will try that out later.

Now, back to flying.

 

Never - ever use custom made default startup situations. This has been a No-Go ever since MS_FS has been around - including P3D.

While it might work with simple default like Aircraft, it will most certainly cause problems with complex addons.


System: i7-10700K, 32GB RAM, RTX2070S 8GB, 1TB SSD, 2 TB HDD, Win10 64bit Home

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52 minutes ago, Alan_A said:

Yep, that was the answer.

I loaded my default (cold and dark) flight, started the engines with CTL + E, then loaded the DC-6 (with engines running), and selected "cold and dark."  Chose the realistic engine start, followed procedure and got all engines running with no problems at all.  Number 2 balked on the first attempt but that was a standard radial-engine thing - it was fine on the second attempt.

So... many, many thanks for figuring that out and giving the rest of us a direction to go in.

I'm wondering if PMDG might want to add a note to the intro manual that the aircraft needs to be loaded over an engines-running default flight - or at least not loaded straight into the sim if the default flight is cold and dark.  I could be wrong, but I don't think it's uncommon to set up a cold-and-dark default flight - it's something I've always done.

Even better would be a tweak so that a cold-and-dark setup doesn't get in the way of an engine start - but of course that's a luxury request and maybe not possible.  I have no idea how much programming would be involved, so maybe it's not a reasonable ask.  If not, then loading over an engines-running flight is an effective workaround.  But it'd be good to have a heads-up about it.

Haven't had to check out the water-injection switch sounds - will try that out later.

Now, back to flying.

 

Never - ever use custom made default startup situations. This has been a No-Go ever since MS_FS has been around - including P3D.

While it might work with simple default like Aircraft, it will most certainly cause problems with complex addons.


System: i7-10700K, 32GB RAM, RTX2070S 8GB, 1TB SSD, 2 TB HDD, Win10 64bit Home

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11 minutes ago, Wothan said:

Never - ever use custom made default startup situations. This has been a No-Go ever since MS_FS has been around - including P3D.

While it might work with simple default like Aircraft, it will most certainly cause problems with complex addons.

I appreciate the advice.  All I can say is that it's always worked until now, including with the rest of the current PMDG lineup, the A2A lineup, and  current and past versions of the Aerosoft Airbus series.  The setup involves a default airplane with the engines and systems turn off, so that others that don't have custom cold-and-dark options don't load with the engines running.

I realize that "it's always worked until now" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.  In fact, it's something you often hear in emergency rooms in response to the question, "what were you doing just before this happened?"  So I don't mean to be defending it, just explaining it.  It's never seemed to be particularly exotic - but if it is, then it is.

EDIT: I should note that to begin with, I wasn't loading the DC-6 over a default scenario - I was loading it from the startup screen, the way PMDG has always advised.  But apparently something in the default scenario has a carryover effect in this case.

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26 minutes ago, Alan_A said:

I appreciate the advice.  All I can say is that it's always worked until now, including with the rest of the current PMDG lineup, the A2A lineup, and  current and past versions of the Aerosoft Airbus series.  The setup involves a default airplane with the engines and systems turn off, so that others that don't have custom cold-and-dark options don't load with the engines running.

I realize that "it's always worked until now" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.  In fact, it's something you often hear in emergency rooms in response to the question, "what were you doing just before this happened?"  So I don't mean to be defending it, just explaining it.  It's never seemed to be particularly exotic - but if it is, then it is.

EDIT: I should note that to begin with, I wasn't loading the DC-6 over a default scenario - I was loading it from the startup screen, the way PMDG has always advised.  But apparently something in the default scenario has a carryover effect in this case.

I agree, I have plenty of saved scenarios, each one unique in the location and state of the aircraft.  Engine starts always work, after I've been cussing at it for about 12-15 sessions.  It seems like it took weeks for me during beta testing to get to the point where I could start an engine on demand.  Don't blame it on a bug, or a saved scenario or anything other than experience or lack thereof.


Dan Downs KCRP

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