So, is BlackMarble worth it with P3Dv4?

[krazyk 157]

12 hours ago, Chris Bell said:

Karan you are mixing things up here again, i've explained to you already it is not us! you are Aerosoft customer!!!
they are the ones who should be offering loyalty update pricing; we allowed this for them!
THEY REFUSED IT!!!

Be that as it may, Chris, it still stands to reason why none of your customers were informed of the internal decision made between you and Aerosoft to no longer provide further updates. This, I say, after being informed that all your Night Environment titles will be updated to at least v1.7 yet most of them weren't. It should have been sorted out between you, the developer, and the publisher on why this condition exists which should've been followed by a joint public statement informing all your existing customers why your products would not be updated after being promised otherwise. Instead, what we see is Aerosoft denying any responsibility as the two of you aren't in business anymore and Creative Design Studios or you in particular claiming what I've just quoted. That leaves us customers sitting on the fence with a bad taste in our mouth.

Anyway, my apologies if you or David feel I've contributed to hijacking this topic. It wasn't my intent to do so and it still isn't. I am only informing potential customers about my experience (both good and bad) with your products as well as Aerosoft as a publisher of said products. 

The topic title states 'So, BlackMarble worth it with P3Dv4?' and that's what we're discussing. I'm sure you'll agree that support criteria, product features, etc are all part of this discussion and that none of it has to do with you personally being attacked in any way or this thread being hijacked, especially when your website isn't exactly a 100% transparent on product features. Like I said earlier, your tech and products could very well be the future of night lighting in P3D and for that reason I want everybody who has never tried any of your products to really do so but they must also be made aware of how thin the ice beneath their feet is. After all, that is the point of an open forum and a healthy discussion.

[Chris Bell 165]

you guys are not our customers; you're Aerosoft's customers,
we don't have any customers emails or records to send to!
if we did none of this been an issue!

FYI: our old publisher still have our v1.71 update's they never published to this day some titles are still v1.1!
these updates were all delivered on time by us, we don't have any control over their internal policy when and what to update,

you can go ahead and ask them to verify what im telling you is true, they got v1.1 all the way up to v1.71,
it was their call what they wanted to update and what not despite our discontent!

this is an issue we try to rectify with our new publishing company,
we cant do any of this without our customers emails, which we never received!

please ignore my rant there two post back, it is appropriate thread to discuss these matters,
i was sure i was reading these responses on a Mikes road blending thread, my apologies again!

i didn't even realize i made that mistake until i read David's followup response

[Chris Bell 165]

7 hours ago, SpiritFlyer said:

I will not buy any product, no matter how good without long term committed support already built into a fair price.

we do provide full and extended support that includes access to our live update server,
you just need leave it checked, if your in a pinch you can uncheck and save few more bucks!
that's all this is, we are trying to make our work as affordable and accessible to any one as much as we can,

 

5 hours ago, 1st fltsimguy said:

i still submit that because this is not a team of people...

im not a one man show, we are 6 people on our Creative Team!

Arno Gerretsen
Peter Rosendahl
Kevin Estruch
Jean-Pierre Peretti
Vitali Kalashnikov

we are the Creative Design Team since day one before we even published Night Environment through Aerosoft,
you can check Aerosoft manuals for their credits to verify!

[HighBypass 2,339]

Here's another one where you have to subscribe.... and it's $59.99 per year! DOUBLE OUCH!! How much is a support subscription to Chris Bell Designs? $4.99 per year I believe..... 

http://www.inside.net/ss/realtraffic-for-psx/

Incidentally, I purchased NE UK from Aerosoft - my version is 1.7. I have FSX:SE. How would I go about an update?

I note on your site that it's up to 1.8. I'm assuming that Aerosoft are no longer involved. I would also assume that I need to buy the product from yourselves, much like PMDG were you have to re-purchase their planes (although that's when you swap sims I know!).

It has to be said that $15 isn't much so it's no biggie if I have to go down that route to secure the latest version of NE.

Cheers.

[Chris Bell 165]

3 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

How much is a support subscription to Chris Bell Designs? $4.99 per year I believe..... 

that price is for two years discounted at 50% when you add it to your checkout!

[HighBypass 2,339]

Indeed Chris! I was just listing the renewal price after the initial purchase. A renewal which is only needed 2 years after the software is purchased! Can't argue with that value in a business model where support requires a subscription. Hell, my XBOX live gold is £40 per year!

2 years of support is a long time in the sim business at the moment. 

[Chris Bell 165]

Thank you Mark for finally saying it out loud!

[LB777 100]

12 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

Here's another one where you have to subscribe.... and it's $59.99 per year!

You're mixing things up, this is not support, this is to get a yearly license to the product... because for this product you're actually paying server infrastructure, unlike Black Marble and most FS addons which are a "one time" buy and that's it. Unless Black Marble's "support" actually means "updates" to the product which would then be quite different...

[HighBypass 2,339]

Point taken LB, but still I believe Black marble support includes updates.. and I quote:

Quote

you are buying support and extended live update services....

 

[Chris Bell 165]

you get a server infrastructure with us as well, you are paying for continues live updates,
the industry is changing with LM and Dovetail pushing updates almost every week now!

with our old publisher there is just no way under their current format they can deliver ours or anyone else updates to you on time!
is it better to stare at a list of future updates with "TBD" for update schedule that we all know will take forever if at any time?

here we are giving you our commitment for two years for $4.98 and we are getting a derailed over this?
we cant stall on updates with TBD when your paying for them can we?
isn't this in everyone's best interest to put in place a program like this,
you wont be waiting on anyone's favor for an update with us,
you're paying for it!

 

[LB777 100]

Just now, HighBypass said:

Point taken LB, but still I believe Black marble support includes updates.. and I quote:

 

Fair enough, so does that mean that if P3D v5 comes out in these 2 years of support, with a completely new terrain engine, you get a free updated version? If so then that's the cheapest support I've ever seen. But it's a gray line and it's hard to know what would count as support or not . But thanks for clarifying, I do feel some people might interpret support as just "tech support".

[Chris Bell 165]

no one knows what will happen if and when v5 will come out,
what i can assure you is as long as the main build number (for example v4.xx) doesn't change,
our support program will always cover your title throughout our contractual obligation!

your license activation is for lifetime and comes with no restriction, regardless of your support plan!

[Gregg_Seipp 568]

2 hours ago, LB777 said:

Fair enough, so does that mean that if P3D v5 comes out in these 2 years of support, with a completely new terrain engine, you get a free updated version? If so then that's the cheapest support I've ever seen. But it's a gray line and it's hard to know what would count as support or not . But thanks for clarifying, I do feel some people might interpret support as just "tech support".

Looking at their forum, I think the question is answered here...

https://forums.chrisbelldesigns.com/topic/326-all-about-our-new-shop-and-our-future-plans/

"Those who purchase same title for more than one platform will be granted 50% discount for their second “same title different platform” purchase,"

Since they charge for P3D and P3D4 separately, they may charge 50% to upgrade to v5.  Sounds like Chris is keeping his options open. 

[Chris Bell 165]

indeed we do Gregg :)
its 50% consecutive...
if you ordered all 4; the 4th comes out at $2.00!
we try to be as competitive as we can be,

 

[signmanbob 592]

On 8/12/2017 at 11:48 AM, FSXtreme said:

Ain't that the truth!! Since when does a developer of flight sim products charge for supporting their product? The cost of added support supposed to be already in the cost of the product.

Maybe the subscription is so you can get updates? On the other hand, that wouldn't be too good either.

Paying for updates is usually only when a product crosses the line into a completely new version, like X-Plane 10 to X-Plane 11, or FSX to P3Dv4.

I surely wouldn't buy this if I had to pay for regular support.

 

Bob

Well, I'm going to have to eat my words.  I just went shopping at Chris Bell's store and just about emptied the shelves.

He explained to me about the support system and his logic and, although it is a little different, it sounds like the product support will be worth it.

I can't wait to get everything installed tonight and see how it looks.  I was flying my CRJ from Aerosoft in the night yesterday, and thinking that what I was seeing wasn't too impressive. That's all going to change tonight.

I believe Chris' products will make night flying in P3Dv4, a real thrill. 

 

Bob