27 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

So we get a "universal" product and then the complaints come in because it's too complicated. Even NOW with having to use several products there are many complaints that EACH product is too complicated, too many options - and you want to combine them all into one?

ROFLMAO!  I sure hope that never happens - we need simpler not more complicated.

FWIW, I run them all at default with a minor change here and there - increase turbulence, faster load time, etc. I use GSalden's preset and I'm good to go.

Vic

I think it is a matter of how the Dev chooses to implement the combined features.

How does "ASP4 with clouds built in" seem any more complicated than having to have both ASP4 and ASCA running in parallel just to get dynamic weather?

I really don't think that having a weather engine that also includes its own cloud and sky textures is a complicated matter. Particularly when the same Dev offers the same features in separate products.

IMO, any UI can have both a set of simple "set it and go" options and then a more detailed set of options to accommodate users.

 

 

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

I think it is a matter of how the Dev chooses to implement the combined features.

How does "ASP4 with clouds built in" seem any more complicated than having to have both ASP4 and ASCA running in parallel just to get dynamic weather?

I really don't think that having a weather engine that also includes its own cloud and sky textures is a complicated matter. Particularly when the same Dev offers the same features in separate products.

IMO, any UI can have both a set of simple "set it and go" options and then a more detailed set of options to accommodate users.

 

 

 

 

 

Have you forgotten AS2012? That had the weather AND clouds. Want to know what the complaints were? "We want the clouds separate so we can manipulate them better". "I want to use xyz clouds". ASCA is a separate product because the combo was tried before and the majority didn't want it that way.

Frankly in almost every industry the business model of "one size fits all" has been a failure. People prefer a product dedicated to one or two tasks that does them extremely well. The phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none" comes to mind.

Vic

10 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

Have you forgotten AS2012? That had the weather AND clouds. Want to know what the complaints were? "We want the clouds separate so we can manipulate them better". "I want to use xyz clouds". ASCA is a separate product because the combo was tried before and the majority didn't want it that way.

Frankly in almost every industry the business model of "one size fits all" has been a failure. People prefer a product dedicated to one or two tasks that does them extremely well. The phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none" comes to mind.

Vic

At first you stated that the combination would be too complicated, but that doesn't sound like what you are quoting now.

My point was that a combination would not be "complicated" to use in response to your statements. Again, running "ASP4 with clouds" is no more complicated than running ASP4 and ASCA seperate.

How do you determine that the majority did not want a combined product? Because I recall seeing "complaints" about how HiFi charged for separate products (weather & clouds), and I also see where many have purchased both ASXX and ASCA to have at the end of the day.... a "combined product" with that one of kind "dynamic" interaction between weather and clouds.

To me, weather with clouds in "one" product is not the jack of all trades...just bringing two closely related features together...as Hifi ultimately did with their dynamic weather option.

With that said, many "complaints" about flight sims (FSX/P3D/XP etc) in "general" is that they are not complete sims. Where is the great weather, clouds, ground textures, ATC, traffic etc? So apparently the masses are "looking" for a complete product, which is why we are forced to rely on these addons in the first place. 

Everyone will have a different opinion,  but I don't think that product fragmentation, and having 5 and 6 additional programs running along with a sim is what "most" people are ultimately looking for to have a complete flight sim experience.

 

 

 

 

Not saying too complicated - just saying that it's been done before and was not successful. 

I would rather have 5 programs doing individual tasks EXCELLENTLY that 1 program doing all of them in a mediocre manner.

I happened to like AS2012 with the clouds built in - unfortunately I was in a minority as far as the market goes. And from a business model standpoint, separate programs are more profitable and more controllable and give you more options for sales.

You have product A + B

you can sell A or B or both

you have product AB

you can sell AB but you lose those that want just A OR B

Developers need to make $$ to continue developing.

Vic

36 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

 

I would rather have 5 programs doing individual tasks EXCELLENTLY that 1 program doing all of them in a mediocre manner.

 

I agree, I also would resort to running multiple products side by side for the lack of good features in the base sim.

However, looking at DTG's current offering....Orbx already included, TrueSky already included, I think that we are seeing a shift in how a core sim can encompass these otherwise 3rd party additions from the start....leaving the expertise to the Devs that do it best (not being the jack of all trades), and partnering up to offer a more complete product.

I think we're on the same page there.

 

Vic

I rather have 5 programs that can do those individual tasks excellently than 5 separate ones that can do them mediocre is what I'm thinking here. We already have enough add-ons that we have to load up with our sim, and the list continues to grow. To me that would be the more simplistic approach.

@captain420 Not everyone buys all addons available and throws them at the sim ;-) 

I have to start up 3 addons and the sim. Wow. ASCA even starts with AS16?!

 

LOL. Sometimes when I read some of the gripes about having to start two or three diferent programs before P3D I wonder what these posters would do if they were flying IRL? Walk around and checkout before startup on a light plane takes time. The more complex the a/c the more time.

I guess, in a perfect world, *someone* would have everything ready and running and all the Captain has to do is sit down and fly........NOT!

Vic

3 hours ago, vgbaron said:

LOL. Sometimes when I read some of the gripes about having to start two or three diferent programs before P3D I wonder what these posters would do if they were flying IRL? Walk around and checkout before startup on a light plane takes time. The more complex the a/c the more time.

I guess, in a perfect world, *someone* would have everything ready and running and all the Captain has to do is sit down and fly........NOT!

Vic

You cannot depart the gate until the weight of the paperwork equals the gross weight of the aircraft!

Right on Vic.

Greg 

May I just throw 2 pics into the discussion to show why I like ENVTEX + AS16/ASCA?

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33761503/ksfodawn.png

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33761516/ksfodawn2.png

 

Very  nice Stefan!

 

Vic

5 hours ago, vgbaron said:

LOL. Sometimes when I read some of the gripes about having to start two or three diferent programs before P3D I wonder what these posters would do if they were flying IRL? Walk around and checkout before startup on a light plane takes time. The more complex the a/c the more time.

I guess, in a perfect world, *someone* would have everything ready and running and all the Captain has to do is sit down and fly........NOT!

Vic

Well starting the additional programs isn't the problem for me as a batch file pretty much takes care of that in one click.

However, I am concerned about the additional processing that may take away from the smoothness of the sim as the programs compete for CPU time. So it is the negative performance impact that can be an issue for some.

1 hour ago, swiesma said:

May I just throw 2 pics into the discussion to show why I like ENVTEX + AS16/ASCA?

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33761503/ksfodawn.png

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33761516/ksfodawn2.png

 

Is that the default Orbx lighting or are you using any enhancements? I ask because my highways seem to have a deep orange glow that I do not see in your pic, and would like to get rid of.

I use black marble base.