Mark II

I have to brag about rain fxs, sorry

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When I posted a thread here, not more than few months ago, about the urgent and important needing of rain effects in the VC, I was put in a corner by many of you, stating that this is not a Project Cars forum, stating that I was wrong and not allowed thinking that a  ( snob ) PMDG owner could even care about such a ridicolous thing.  

Thread sunk 

After few weeks Dovetail released FSW whcih brought rain effects. Then FF in XP11 did the same announcing and showing in a video the power of rain effects.

Now P3d V 4.1 will start to implement them. :laugh:

C'mon snob PMDG users (  not everyone of course !!! ) are you still so elitarian to think this is a not a Project Cars forum therefore rain effects are not important at all or anyone of you snob ones will start to admit the evidence, where the flight simulation is going to ? 

I know your answers in advance, of course, I will read them all anyway :)  smiling

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2 minutes ago, Mark II said:

C'mon snob PMDG users (  not everyone of course !!! ) are you still so elitarian to think this is a not a Project Cars forum therefore rain effects are not important at all or anyone of you snob ones will start to admit the evidence, where the flight simulation is going to ? 

I literally commented in our company group chat that I was waiting for someone to make some sarcastic remark on the forum about this...

Up until now, there was no default sim function that we could take advantage of. It would all have to be custom coded, which would've brought the sim to its knees. Now there's a default function to take advantage of, ergo the point is predominantly moot. The resistance wasn't one of elitism. It was one of practicality.

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10 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

I literally commented in our company group chat that I was waiting for someone to make some sarcastic remark on the forum about this...

Up until now, there was no default sim function that we could take advantage of. It would all have to be custom coded, which would've brought the sim to its knees. Now there's a default function to take advantage of, ergo the point is predominantly moot. The resistance wasn't one of elitism. It was one of practicality.

Let me disagree scandinavian.

FS9 as far as I remember right, it already had rain effects on the windshield, and those were not the times of Pascal cards or 5Ghz CPU, not at all !

If I rememebr it right, even PMDG had its JS41 with some sort of rain effects, if I recall it right but I am old therefore my memory often leaks.

I therefore disagree about the supposed resources drained from such fundamental aspect, considering FS9 managed them very well lot of years ago and considering how powerful are nowdays CPUs and GPUs.

PMDG simply decided to adhere to the fact that no one had them, glad to see you will be somehow forced to think twice before excluding them again in your next release.

A PMDG 737 MAX to be out in 2020-2022, for example, without rain effects, would be a serious bet against the blowing wind, will you dare to do that ? 

Let's see :) and stay tuned

 

 

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FS9 is ancient history with far less texture resolution and way less polygon count than that of FSX or, for that matter, P3D. The upgraded engine for FSX didn't feature such implementations due to other things (far more important) taking its place.

X-Plane is another world completely: Another engine, another developer, etc. It's being done now, so enjoy and don't brag so much because some people (like me) couldn't care less about rain effects.

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Just now, Mark II said:

Let me disagree scandinavian.

FS9 as far as I remember right, it already had rain effects on the windshield, and those were not the times of Pascal cards or 5Ghz CPU, not at all !

If I rememebr it right, even PMDG had its JS with some sort of rain effect, if I recall it right but I am old therefore my memory often leaks.

I therefore disagree about the supposed resources drained from such fundamental aspect, considering FS9 managed them very well lot of years ago and considering how powerful are nowdays CPUs and GPUs.

PMDG simply decided to adhere to the fact that no one had them, glad to see you will be somehow forced to think twice before excluding them again in your next release.

A PMDG 737 MAX to be out in 2020-2022, for example, without rain effects, will be a serious bet against the blowing wind, will you dare to do that ? 

Let's see :) and stay tuned

Let me disagree with you, as your information is half-baked.

FS9 had it, yes. FSX did not, so my earlier statement is maintained: there are no rain effects in our products as they are currently because there is no effect in the default sim to take advantage of.

You're ignoring multiple iterations of simulators, and using only examples of sims we don't support, which I'd almost argue is misleading.

 

Out of FSX, P3D and XP10, none of them have the effect you're attempting to argue should already be there, and are arguing that we should simply code around this restriction. You're attempting to drag us through the mud for not implementing a function that doesn't exist in the sim. Moreover, you're also seemingly attempting to drag us through the mud about a function that hasn't even been implemented yet, before we even have a chance to implement it. That's a little disingenuous, no?

2 minutes ago, Nuno Pinto said:

FS9 is ancient history with far less texture resolution and way less polygon count than that of FSX or, for that matter, P3D. The upgraded engine for FSX didn't feature such implementations due to other things (far more important) taking its place.

X-Plane is another world completely: Another engine, another developer, etc. It's being done now, so enjoy and don't brag so much because some people (like me) couldn't care less about rain effects.

This.

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You remain convinced of your opinions, I remain convinced of mine.

The fact is that rain effects are now part of P3d 4.1 and PMDG will have to deal with it, like it or not.

If PMDG doesn't care about rain effects, hates them or whatever, ok, it is your choice. :happy:

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Whilst rain effects on a windshield are kind of cool, most people who have flown aeroplanes for real know that rain on the windshield rarely affects things from an operational standpoint, so it's more of an eye candy thing; single engine props usually blow it all off the screen and even gliders don't really seem to have too many problems even without a prop helping to clear the glass, I even flew a glider through a thunderstorm once without the rain affecting visibility too much, it was actually the condensation on the inside of the glass which was the issue, where I had to open the DV panel to dissipate that. And as far as airliners go, most of those have rain repellent and even when the rain is bad enough to require wipers being turned on, it can only do so much when the rain itself affects the range of visibility.

What was a nice visual effect which also had some utility for operational reasons, was icing on the windscreen. I recall the Ariane 737NG having that effect in FS2004, but I seem to recall it didn't have it in its FSX version, and it was missed between the two aeroplanes which were otherwise fairly identical systems-wise. Actually seeing icing on the corners of the windscreen appearing was useful for knowing when to turn on the anti-ice systems.

Of course now with FSW, XP11 and P3D V4 all being 64 bit, we are seeing those effects become available again, since they are no longer taking up resources which otherwise needed to be rationed in 32 bit applications. And since we can have them, then why not? But, I'll still be championing a greater desire for windshield icing effects for their obvious utility beyond being nice visually.

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6 minutes ago, Chock said:

Whilst rain effects on a windshield are kind of cool, most people who have flown aeroplanes for real know that rain on the windshield rarely affects things from an operational standpoint, so it's more of an eye candy thing; single engine props usually blow it all off the screen and even gliders don't really seem to have too many problems even without a prop helping to clear the glass, I even flew a glider through a thunderstorm once without the rain affecting visibility too much, it was actually the condensation on the inside of the glass which was the issue, where I had to open the DV panel to dissipate that. And as far as airliners go, most of those have rain repellent and even when the rain is bad enough to require wipers being turned on, it can only do so much when the rain itself is effect the range of visibility.

What was a nice visual effect which also had some utility for operational reasons, was icing on the windscreen. I recall the Ariane 737NG having that effect in FS2004, but I seem to recall it didn't have it in its FSX version, and it was missed between the two aeroplanes which were otherwise fairly identical systems-wise. Actually seeing icing on the corners of the windscreen appearing was useful for knowing when to turn on the anti-ice systems.

Of course now with FSW, XP11 and P3D V4 all being 64 bit, we are seeing those effects become available again, since they are no longer taking up resources which otherwise needed to be rationed in 32 bit applications. And since we can have them, then why not? But, I'll still be championing a greater desire for windshield icing effects for their obvious utility beyond being nice visually.

Nice to see you can express an opinion ( which I share btw )  without being accused of being an enemy which is throwing mud on others.

I just predicted the future few months ago,  I am now clearly bragging,  "I was right". With actual hardware !!!  :) 

Btw I am a PMDG customer too, but seeing no rain effects threw mud on my soul every single time I fly, every single time.

Now the future is the present, let' s see who is on board and who is not.

 

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Just now, Mark II said:

You remain convinced of your opinions, I remain convinced of mine.

The fact is that rain effects are now part of P3d 4.1 and PMDG will have to deal with it, like it or not.

If PMDG doesn't care about rain effects, hates them or whatever, ok, it is your choice. :happy:

Okay...I was willing to let this slide up to a point, but this is a bit ridiculous, and I will not stand for it.

  1. It is not an opinion that there are no rain effects in FSX or P3D as they currently are. This is 100%, without a doubt, a fact. Your refusal to acknowledge this is an incorrect opinion held in willful ignorance of fact.
  2. Rain effects will be part of P3Dv4.1. This is a fact. I have not at any point debated, or attempted to counter this. My issue stems only from pushing back against your accusations that we would ignore this function in the future because we have "ignored" the "feature" in the past...when in reality, we simply never coded around the lack of functionality. There is an entire Grand Canyon-sized gap here.

Earlier, I was willing to grant that you weren't being intentionally misleading. At this point, I am not able to grant you that. It is quite clear that you are intentionally misleading people here. This is not an opinion. This is a fact. You haven't even waited for v4.1 to even come out, or even let us release some sort of official statement about it and you're making an indirect claim that we won't implement it, and potentially don't even care.

...again, based on the fact that in the existing iterations of the sims that we support, the function isn't available because it does not exist (also a fact). Your refusal to accept these facts does not make them opinions.

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6 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

Okay...I was willing to let this slide up to a point, but this is a bit ridiculous, and I will not stand for it.

  1. It is not an opinion that there are no rain effects in FSX or P3D as they currently are. This is 100%, without a doubt, a fact. Your refusal to acknowledge this is an incorrect opinion held in willful ignorance of fact.
  2. Rain effects will be part of P3Dv4.1. This is a fact. I have not at any point debated, or attempted to counter this. My issue stems only from pushing back against your accusations that we would ignore this function in the future because we have "ignored" the "feature" in the past...when in reality, we simply never coded around the lack of functionality. There is an entire Grand Canyon-sized gap here.

Earlier, I was willing to grant that you weren't being intentionally misleading. At this point, I am not able to grant you that. It is quite clear that you are intentionally misleading people here. This is not an opinion. This is a fact. You haven't even waited for v4.1 to even come out, or even let us release some sort of official statement about it and you're making an indirect claim that we won't implement it, and potentially don't even care.

...again, based on the fact that in the existing iterations of the sims that we support, the function isn't available because it does not exist (also a fact). Your refusal to accept these facts does not make them opinions.

Scandinavian, please do not take it so bad, I am just bragging, I told you even in the title.

Better to chill down, otherwise, it seems this flame has been intentionally ignited to close the thread.

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3 minutes ago, Mark II said:

Scandinavian, please do not take it so bad, I am just bragging, I told you even in the title.

Better to chill down, otherwise, it seems this flame has been intentionally ignited to close the thread.

If I wanted to, I could've made the thread disappear without even commenting at all. Instead of admitting fault, you're doubling down and now trying to claim that I manufactured dissent in order to close a thread that I could've made disappear without comment anyway? Come now...You caused the discord by being misleading. I called you on it and you kept doubling down.

And I'm not sure what you mean about not taking it so bad because you're just bragging. You have nothing to brag about. I have Project Cars, too. I love messing around in it in VR. The rain effects, particularly in VR, are awesome. This, however, is nothing to brag about, because PC isn't FSX or P3D. Apples and oranges. You might as well brag about being able to step outside and feel rain effects when it rains.

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Lmfao...rain effects, really?  This is a concern?  I have seen them in the ifly 744 in fsx and they tank fps, and wipers don't clear the rain.  A complete waste of finite cpu power.

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What's needed is a Wet-On Surface modeled in the sim that can also be transparent and viewed from either side. It would have to work for any object in the sim for whatever environment each side faces. So for example inside move closer to the window and it mists from breath if the surface is cooler while outside rain bounces off depending on velocity and direction.

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1 hour ago, Mark II said:

When I posted a thread here, not more than few months ago, about the urgent and important needing of rain effects in the VC, I was put in a corner by many of you, stating that this is not a Project Cars forum, stating that I was wrong and not allowed thinking that a  ( snob ) PMDG owner could even care about such a ridicolous thing.  

There was no urgent and important need for rain effects in the VC. It's eye candy. Nice to have but not essential.

 

1 hour ago, Mark II said:

C'mon snob PMDG users (  not everyone of course !!! ) are you still so elitarian to think this is a not a Project Cars forum therefore rain effects are not important at all or anyone of you snob ones will start to admit the evidence, where the flight simulation is going to ? 

Nothing to do with snobbishness or elitism. Just a practical attitude that without built-in VC rain effects in the sim engine, adding them is a very inefficient use of limited resources which can be better spent elsewhere. You said yourself they are being added to v4.1. They weren't there before being ignored by PMDG for reasons you have projected on them and this forum. I just hope they are better than the unrealistic raindrops in FS9.

 

1 hour ago, Mark II said:

I know your answers in advance, of course, I will read them all anyway :)  smiling

Congratulations. All you've achieved is to advertise that your own grasp of the facts is, dare I say, imperfect.

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Can't someone just lock this thread now?!

I totally and utterly fail to fathom the point of this... :huh:

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Well, all I'll say is I'm glad we're getting it.  Any push forward on the effects of weather, whether visual or otherwise, is good.  We fly in weather and it's a very important consideration for real pilots all the time. 

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4 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

Can't someone just lock this thread now?!

I totally and utterly fail to fathom the point of this... :huh:

That's what the OP wants. I'd rather see him tied up in knots by his own flawed logic.

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Just now, kevinh said:

 

That's what the OP wants. I'd rather see him tied up in knots by his own flawed logic.

LOL, yes... Actually I want to see that too, come to think of it... 

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A futile attempt to wind Kyle up. He doesn't have a key, he's a Duracell Bunny.

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28 minutes ago, SteveW said:

A futile attempt to wind Kyle up. He doesn't have a key, he's a Duracell Bunny.

lol

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...and I mean that as a compliment. I felt it a bit unfair that Kyle be forced to defend the situation.

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So throughout all these years, it is only PMDG who hasn't included rain effects in their products though it is an available feature in FSX and P3D and all others have this implemented?

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What about the furry dice hanging at the right angle and the coat-hook object? I want to hang my jacket up and see it come off and flop around in the cockpit as I fly upside down, eventually coming to rest draped across the instruments.

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39 minutes ago, costamesa said:

So throughout all these years, it is only PMDG who hasn't included rain effects in their products though it is an available feature in FSX and P3D and all others have this implemented?

What are you talking about?! Aerosoft (and quite a few others) haven't implemented VC rain effects either. And what ya' know - it's for the exact same reasons as Kyle have given.

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18 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

What are you talking about?! Aerosoft (and quite a few others) haven't implemented VC rain effects either. And what ya' know - it's for the exact same reasons as Kyle have given.

actually  rather have  the  flush  working  in the  lavatories  first before  the  rain  effects:dry:

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