Cruachan

BM Support discussion

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Hi Richard,

ORBX FTX Global Vector does have a significant impact on performance. However, as always, it depends on where you fly and what features you choose to have active. 

There is a worthy alternative: Black Marble Base/Vector. When you have time I recommend you take a look at what it has to offer. Also there are compatibility patches with ORBX now available. I installed FTX Germany South last night and enjoyed a spell-blindingly wonderful evening flight out of Fussen and performance remained fluid throughout. I lock at 31fps with VSync ON so rarely look at the raw fluctuating frame rate counter these days. On this occasion I was curious and it was up in the 60s and 70s. Again, a word of caution, quoted frame rates are only ever helpful when provided in proper context. It's a pity we don't have a shorthand way of including all our settings and relevant Addons in our signatures. That would go a long way towards helping to eliminate some of the recurring misinformation appearing on these forums.

Regards,

Mike

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32 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

ORBX FTX Global Vector does have a significant impact on performance. However, as always, it depends on where you fly and what features you choose to have active.

OK, good to know meaning I will be a bit cautious enabling stuff in Vector. Would have been nice to know if there are any particular features in Vectors to avoid to save some FPS. Guess I'll do some testing myself later on.

33 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

There is a worthy alternative: Black Marble Base/Vector.

Don't have time to look into it right now but I though that was mainly for night time flying?

Personally I rarely fly at night since I find it much more rewarding from a visual point of view to fly during daylight being able to see everything around you.

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28 minutes ago, WebMaximus said:

OK, good to know meaning I will be a bit cautious enabling stuff in Vector. Would have been nice to know if there are any particular features in Vectors to avoid to save some FPS. Guess I'll do some testing myself later on.

Don't have time to look into it right now but I though that was mainly for night time flying?

Personally I rarely fly at night since I find it much more rewarding from a visual point of view to fly during daylight being able to see everything around you.

Hi Richard,

Concerning FTX Vector Rob has kindly provided us with a good starting set of choices that minimise the impact on performance: http://www.robainscough.com/P3D_Orbx_Vector_Settings.html 

These recommended options are still relevant in Prepar3D v4.

Black Marble Vector incorporates comprehensive worldwide roadway coverage and their placement, we understand, is more accurate than that provided by ORBX Vector. Depending on your configuration all roads are now visible during the daytime, which is a huge plus! Measures have been taken to ensure optimum compatibility and, in this respect, ORBX have shown a laudable willingness to be helpful. That way you can keep their coastlines while enjoying everything else BM has to offer. 

For me, Night Flights have become irresistible. It's a truly amazing accomplishment!

Regards,

Mike

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16 hours ago, Cruachan said:

Black Marble Vector incorporates comprehensive worldwide roadway coverage and their placement, we understand, is more accurate than that provided by ORBX Vector.

 

Sounds interesting ...

Too bad, that "only 3 month of free support" policy is with his products.

A no go for me!

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1 hour ago, guenseli said:

 

Sounds interesting ...

Too bad, that "only 3 month of free support" policy is with his products.

A no go for me!

Buy the support and you’re good -.-

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2 minutes ago, swiesma said:

Buy the support and you’re good

 

No, will never support such a business concept in flight simulation.

But we're going off topic ...

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1 hour ago, guenseli said:

 

No, will never support such a business concept in flight simulation.

But we're going off topic ...

Hi Guenter,

Ask yourself how much true 24/7/365 support is provided by other Developers? Admittedly there are a few who will spend some time out of their busy schedules to help their customers, but mostly they will set up dedicated forums with the hope that other users will be easing the load. Look what happened to PTA and Its Developer, 'KNOSSOS'. In the end the responsibility he felt for Support provision proved to be just too much. The popularity of his product was such that the user base grew very quickly and, inevitably, the ever increasing demands for his time became unmanageable. He decided, very sensibly in my opinion, to pass this responsibility on to another. PTA is now Payware and it is quite likely that a reasonable supplemental one-off cost for the provision of occasional Developer Support has been factored into the purchase price. The dedicated PTA forum remains as backup.

Those of us who own some or all of the Black Marble products are happy in the knowledge that the Developer is very responsive and willing to be helpful. Yes, initial support is free for the first 3 months and, for many, that will be more than sufficient time to sort out any issues. However, for a small additional sum you can purchase 2 years of reassurance (renewable) that rock solid assistance will always be at hand, covering ALL the BM products, from someone whose specialist knowledge can help resolve issues quickly. To me that seems to be a good deal and, what's more, I appreciate the Developer's honesty in being up front about this side of the sale, which is optional, and the responsibility he feels for the provision of value Support.

Also, let's not forget that while he too has his own Website and forums for the purposes of feedback and support provision, such valued instruments are not free and have to be paid for. Again, ask yourself how many who visit the AVSIM forums  have become regular donors to ensure its continued existence? The figures speak for themselves and there is always a substantial annual shortfall. Carrying advertisements undoubtedly helps but Is unlikely to cover all costs. So, who pays the balance of what is needed to keep the show on the road? We have every reason to be grateful that others are always willing to step up when, for whatever reason, we remain reluctant or unable to do so.

Regards,

Mike

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Hey Mike, I thought the concern here was where support is not a particular requirement of use, like for example an addon installs some textures and scenery, no support required if it installs in the right place. I think the support problem is one attempting to be avoided. It's more of a problem to deal with the myriad of situations found due to the complex flight-sim infrastructure and the way things build up into problems on the PC. Fair to charge for that if you can.

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20 hours ago, Cruachan said:

...
Again, a word of caution, quoted frame rates are only ever helpful when provided in proper context. It's a pity we don't have a shorthand way of including all our settings and relevant Addons in our signatures. That would go a long way towards helping to eliminate some of the recurring misinformation appearing on these forums.
...

Amen.

Especially the resolution used in P3D is VERY important but nearly everbody is missing this vital information. All this infos, tweaks etc. means shi*t if we don't know the used resolution.

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I'm so upset by this behave to charge for support when I sell a 160$ software that I see no sense to argue against.

Chris Bell could do what he wants and charge what he wants. In the end, the market will tell.

 

I do not want to be offtopic here any longer, sorry.

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Not to mention in the EU you can't sell a product without support, at least for the first six months you have to provide free customer support.

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1 hour ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Guenter,

Ask yourself how much true 24/7/365 support is provided by other Developers? Admittedly there are a few who will spend some time out of their busy schedules to help their customers, but mostly they will set up dedicated forums with the hope that other users will be easing the load. Look what happened to PTA and Its Developer, 'KNOSSOS'. In the end the responsibility he felt for Support provision proved to be just too much. The popularity of his product was such that the user base grew very quickly and, inevitably, the ever increasing demands for his time became unmanageable. He decided, very sensibly in my opinion, to pass this responsibility on to another. PTA is now Payware and it is quite likely that a reasonable supplemental one-off cost for the provision of occasional Developer Support has been factored into the purchase price. The dedicated PTA forum remains as backup.

Those of us who own some or all of the Black Marble products are happy in the knowledge that the Developer is very responsive and willing to be helpful. Yes, initial support is free for the first 3 months and, for many, that will be more than sufficient time to sort out any issues. However, for a small additional sum you can purchase 2 years of reassurance (renewable) that rock solid assistance will always be at hand, covering ALL the BM products, from someone whose specialist knowledge can help resolve issues quickly. To me that seems to be a good deal and, what's more, I appreciate the Developer's honesty in being up front about this side of the sale, which is optional, and the responsibility he feels for the provision of value Support.

Also, let's not forget that while he too has his own Website and forums for the purposes of feedback and support provision, such valued instruments are not free and have to be paid for. Again, ask yourself how many who visit the AVSIM forums  have become regular donors to ensure its continued existence? The figures speak for themselves and there is always a substantial annual shortfall. Carrying advertisements undoubtedly helps but Is unlikely to cover all costs. So, who pays the balance of what is needed to keep the show on the road? We have every reason to be grateful that others are always willing to step up when, for whatever reason, we remain reluctant or unable to do so.

Regards,

Mike

Nice try at the justification Mike but I’m guessing you are in the minority. Orbx, pmdg, aerosoft, nobody charges for support. If they did it would be uproar as it should be here. Even realair who have gone out of business still offer free support for old customers. 

If that means setting up a support forum where users take some of the load then so be it. It seems to work well for all the other vendors. Why does Chris Bell believe his product and circumstance dictate otherwise? I guess at the end of the day the market will speak but he won’t get a cent out of me. 

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3 hours ago, guenseli said:

 

No, will never support such a business concept in flight simulation.

But we're going off topic ...

„Such a business model“ - paying for other people’s work? Well. Ok. But then stop complaining. 

Or do you work for free? Guess not. 

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11 minutes ago, GHarrall said:

Nice try at the justification Mike but I’m guessing you are in the minority. Orbx, pmdg, aerosoft, nobody charges for support. If they did it would be uproar as it should be here. Even realair who have gone out of business still offer free support for old customers. 

If that means setting up a support forum where users take some of the load then so be it. It seems to work well for all the other vendors. Why does Chris Bell believe his product and circumstance dictate otherwise? I guess at the end of the day the market will speak but he won’t get a cent out of me. 

Yeah. Other companies simply add these costs to their product prices. Chris should charge 20% more and remove the support fee. Then this whining over some Euros would stop. 

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9 minutes ago, swiesma said:

Or do you work for free?

 

I do not and Chris does also not ... remember the initial costs of Black Marble?

Please ask if PMDG, FSLabs, A2A, Aerosoft, JustFlight ... oh and all others ...  do work for free!

 

 

As I said. I will not support it.

And will now close this case on my side.

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