WebMaximus

Speaking about annoying things...

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The other day I brought up how the seasons in our simulated world don't very often match the real life seasons and what you see looking out your window which I personally find quite annoying.

Today I came to think of one other thing that always annoyed me quite a bit and wanted to hear if I'm the only one and if there's some kind of fix I overlooked even when I doubt that since I guess it's all on each developer.

What I'm thinking of today is how the vehicles on the apron when you're using airport scenery that comes with such seem to be totally blind as well as liberated from any kind of intelligence running straight through your aircraft and sometimes even into each other, will never stop and give way and in general behave like they had quite a few too many drinks before positioning themselves behind the steering wheel.

Will airport scenery developers ever come up with apron vehicles that don't behave like this? I guess it must be extremely hard considering for how long we've seen this same behavior and still do in 2017 regardless of airport developer (or at least those I ever bought an airport scenery from).

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I think it's important to remember that most add-ons we currently have were initially developed with 32-bit technology and therefore had to have at least some limitations to avoid OOM crashes. Now that we have 64-bit Sims we are open to a whole new world of possibilities, but we will have to wait as computers improve and developers create new products. Things haven't even truly begun with 64-bit simming.

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17 minutes ago, cleonpack93 said:

I think it's important to remember that most add-ons we currently have were initially developed with 32-bit technology and therefore had to have at least some limitations to avoid OOM crashes. Now that we have 64-bit Sims we are open to a whole new world of possibilities....

I don't think 32 or 64 bit versions of P3D have anything to do with what the OP is talking about as far as developers overcoming apron vehicles crashing into objects. Probably was more of a programming or sim limitation (not memory related) as to why it still happens.

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Didn't realize some kind of simple "don't smash into things around you" technology would be that demanding but maybe you're right.

Well, time will tell what 64 bit will bring in this regard.

And edited to add, let's hope this will also set us free from vehicles with wheels not spinning but more looking like they were painted onto the vehicle.

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You have to consider that the guys that drive these vehicles are only apprentices, hired on zero hours contracts and they've been told in no uncertain terms to cut costs, drive up profits, and at the end of the task "One of you WILL be fired". I'd drive the same !

 

Regards Brian

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27 minutes ago, WebMaximus said:

Didn't realize some kind of simple "don't smash into things around you" technology would be that demanding but maybe you're right.

The vehicle would have to know exactly where everything within a finite range was located. Every time it moved, there would have to be checking to expand that area, see if anything has moved out of the area, is the vehicle within xx pixels of anything, etc etc - a whole lot of time consuming processing going on. Not a trivial task to program.

Vic

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24 minutes ago, SpaceMonkey said:

You have to consider that the guys that drive these vehicles are only apprentices, hired on zero hours contracts and they've been told in no uncertain terms to cut costs, drive up profits, and at the end of the task "One of you WILL be fired". I'd drive the same !

 

Regards Brian

Well, I'm pretty sure most of the apron vehicles drivers in my simulator anyway would be fired for reckless driving rather than for any other reason :laugh:

2 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

The vehicle would have to know exactly where everything within a finite range was located. Every time it moved, there would have to be checking to expand that area, see if anything has moved out of the area, is the vehicle within xx pixels of anything, etc etc - a whole lot of time consuming processing going on. Not a trivial task to program.

Vic

What you say makes sense but at the same time this kind of situational awareness has been seen in other types of simulators and games for ages so I guess it's mostly about developers prioritizing and saving on the performance for other things.

Still I'm hoping the day will come when you see how a bus will give way for you when you're on your way into your designated gate.

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1 hour ago, WebMaximus said:

Still I'm hoping the day will come when you see how a bus will give way for you when you're on your way into your designated gate.

Shoot. That doesn't even happen in the real world. If I had a dollar for every time I had to stop a push for a vehicle failing to yield, I could have retired five years earlier.:biggrin:

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The problem relies with the ESP engine, apron vehicles are still driven by the AI engine, so this is similar to the nonsense of ATC and AI planes racing to land at the same time.

This is why I disabled crash detection it is hopeless.

Simbol 

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2 minutes ago, simbol said:

This is why I disabled crash detection it is hopeless.

+1

 

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If I remember correctly in the days of FSX some of the Aerosoft Airports with the Airport Enhancement Services (AES) system included had airport vehicles that stopped at least for the user aircraft.

Unfortunately AES did not make it to P3D yet.

 

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AES was using its own AI engine for airport vehicles that is why it worked.

Simbol 

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1 hour ago, mwilk said:

Shoot. That doesn't even happen in the real world. If I had a dollar for every time I had to stop a push for a vehicle failing to yield, I could have retired five years earlier.:biggrin:

Wow...

Well, if the developers find a way to fix this further down the road maybe the real world can learn something from it too :laugh:

58 minutes ago, simbol said:

The problem relies with the ESP engine, apron vehicles are still driven by the AI engine, so this is similar to the nonsense of ATC and AI planes racing to land at the same time.

This is why I disabled crash detection it is hopeless.

Simbol 

Yep, crash detection disabled here too now.

27 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

If I remember correctly in the days of FSX some of the Aerosoft Airports with the Airport Enhancement Services (AES) system included had airport vehicles that stopped at least for the user aircraft.

Unfortunately AES did not make it to P3D yet.

 

Yep, I remember this too now that you mention it.

This makes me think about SODE and how lots of developers have started to relay on it for certain functionality.

Imagine if a similar tool was developed which handled the vehicle AI traffic on the apron where the airport developers could use that for their apron traffic in the same way they use SODE for animated jetways for example.

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46 minutes ago, simbol said:

AES was using its own AI engine for airport vehicles that is why it worked.

Simbol 

Exactly.

Why not come up with a similar tool airport devs could use in P3D.

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Focusing on planes at the moment, maybe my runway control tool might force the apron vehicles to behave different, but I will see this at a later stage as it is not the priority.

Simbol 

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Sounds good and if Aerosoft could do this with AES in previous versions I like to think it would be possible in the current version as well. 

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7 hours ago, WebMaximus said:

The other day I brought up how the seasons in our simulated world don't very often match the real life seasons and what you see looking out your window which I personally find quite annoying.

Today I came to think of one other thing that always annoyed me quite a bit and wanted to hear if I'm the only one and if there's some kind of fix I overlooked even when I doubt that since I guess it's all on each developer.

What I'm thinking of today is how the vehicles on the apron when you're using airport scenery that comes with such seem to be totally blind as well as liberated from any kind of intelligence running straight through your aircraft and sometimes even into each other, will never stop and give way and in general behave like they had quite a few too many drinks before positioning themselves behind the steering wheel.

Will airport scenery developers ever come up with apron vehicles that don't behave like this? I guess it must be extremely hard considering for how long we've seen this same behavior and still do in 2017 regardless of airport developer (or at least those I ever bought an airport scenery from).

Good point! This issue is a realism breaker for me too! I turn collision detection off and airport vehicles as well. Even GSX vehicles drive through each other and the follow me car drives through your aircraft! It can look rather daft!

I use UT2 and that does appear to have some sort of intelligent detection zone, on the taxi way. I do see aircraft giving way to my aircraft, which is a step in the right direction.

With no VAS limit, I guess collision detection routines, will be another benefit we could see in 64 bit? Along with some photo realistic flight decks, replacing those 32 bit "painting by numbers" ones!:huh:

Best regards.

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4 hours ago, simbol said:

The problem relies with the ESP engine, apron vehicles are still driven by the AI engine, so this is similar to the nonsense of ATC and AI planes racing to land at the same time.

This is why I disabled crash detection it is hopeless.

Simbol 

Anyone who cares to do so can load any airport into ADE and see just how the service vehicle traffic lanes are laid out. They follow fixed paths for the most part. I stipulate "for the most part" because if the user's aircraft has the exits marked properly, the service vehicles will leave their defined paths and seek for the enumerated doors. If they aren't properly marked in the user's aircraft, the service vehicles will try to guess where the doors are -- and usually miss completely. :laugh:

What is comical though is when one of the paths has an error and the vehicle(s) get lost. Then they have to wander around for awhile until they find another path to join!

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15 hours ago, charlie130 said:

With no VAS limit, I guess collision detection routines, will be another benefit we could see in 64 bit?

I don't think that increasing VAS will help in this case as it's much more of a processing problem.

15 hours ago, charlie130 said:

Along with some photo realistic flight decks, replacing those 32 bit "painting by numbers" ones!

High quality, photo-realistic VC textures were around long before the advent of 64 bit flight sims. There are even some stunning freeware cockpits: the Jahn/Visser C-47R is a perfect example of just what can be done if you apply sufficient resources to the task.

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22 hours ago, SpaceMonkey said:

You have to consider that the guys that drive these vehicles are only apprentices, hired on zero hours contracts and they've been told in no uncertain terms to cut costs, drive up profits, and at the end of the task "One of you WILL be fired". I'd drive the same !

 

Regards Brian

Union folks, you mean.

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20 hours ago, vortex681 said:

I don't think that increasing VAS will help in this case as it's much more of a processing problem.

High quality, photo-realistic VC textures were around long before the advent of 64 bit flight sims. There are even some stunning freeware cockpits: the Jahn/Visser C-47R is a perfect example of just what can be done if you apply sufficient resources to the task.

I don't know how much memory it would use to implement some sort of detection system? But that's a programming problem for the developers to solve. The ESP engine is supposed to use multiple cores, but again that depends how the programmer writes the code. 

Yes, I think Jan's C47 is very interesting. It doesn't seem to use much VAS either. Also, the GPU memory usage is always pegged at 2Gb (on my system, GTX 1080). So there does not appear to be any significant "cost" to use photo realistic textures.

If I can look around a flight deck and not come across hexagonal air vents that look like they have been painted on the surface, (as an example) then that would be good. Some of the Caranedo interiors are really good. The Phenom has leather seats that I feel sure give off a leathery aroma!:biggrin:

Onward and upward!

Regards

 

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For what it's worth the same thing happens with X-Plane.  I think it would just be too many variables to consider to prevent them from running through objects.

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