Freeware Authors - Discussion

[Guest ben_hewitt]

I agree remove the files, he is acting like a child by requesting this in the first place. I would also ban him from uploading anything to AVSIM in the future for causing hassle and denying people for downloading what he did have up.Now Tom..can I have my 189 files removed please? ;) }(

[JP_Visser 3]

i have not uploaded very much yet,but,if i "meltdown" my files stay put.i've done one repaint on which i have had numerous positive reactions,including one from a pilot that first flew her on his first flight as a F/O.for those numerous positive reactions i'm very grateful,and they entirely dismiss the 100 not so positive reactions i have hadover my other repaints(which indeed were crappy :),so i learned )as for Avsim:as they state in their policy,they'll remove files on request,with no questions asked.if you say that,you have to do that,no matter how sad it is.i think it is a great shame developers flock away from this hobby,just because there are some rotten apples in the basket.it makes me wonder though,do they run as well if they getcritisized irl?it is a fact of life there are people having no life,that choose to bother and/or hurt other people,just so they can feel better.it is an art to avoid being struck by them.as an autist,i'm lucky:i don't give a darn :)if someone tries to get me,i go to my own world.in that respect,i feel for you guys,as you understand sarcasm and things like that.tataJP.

[ubersu 78]

Regardless of author, I think AVSIM's policy is correct. No matter what the author's intentions are, the author has every right to have his/her files removed on request. These are copyrighted works and, as such, the author has control of them.DJ

[Guest mgerner]

Being a freelancing journalist/photographer in the print media business since 20 years, I'm aware that these are very difficult issues to discuss. But instead of writing a quite lenghty essay, talking about newspapers reprinting work I did for others without permssion, instead of moaning over publishers never paying the crrect fees or telling you about endless discussions with copyright attorneys I'll sum up my - strictly personal - bottom line:If things are published, they're published. It doesn't make sense (nor it is really applicable in modern internet times) to retract any intellectual effort after you spread it.

[Sonar5 3]

Hi Tom,Yeah, I figured they were two different instances. My original response, I'm pretty confident was alluding to the same thread you also have responded to.The 2nd One I responded to was when I figured out there were probably two distinct instances.Either way, I think respecting the Author always holds Avsim at the forefront of sites.Take Care,JoeGrab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

[michal 44]

They should stay.You can't unring a bell.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg

[Holger 0]

Howdy,it's obviously not difficult to come up with rational arguments for keeping the files on the server, and I'd tend to agree with them.However, in most of these cases you're dealing with an individual who is already "frustrated". Thus, I'd consider the more important issue the potential consequences for the reputation of the file host if this individual starts an "emotional" campaign for "disrespecting" his/her wishes. In other words, it may be less work to remove the files and say "good riddance" than to spend lots of time on "damage control" posts trying to justify the decision to keep them.Cheers, Holger

[Sonar5 3]

>I agree remove the files, he is acting like a child by>requesting this in the first place. I would also ban him from>uploading anything to AVSIM in the future for causing hassle>and denying people for downloading what he did have up.>>Now Tom..can I have my 189 files removed please? ;) }(<----- Scratches head, runs search feature, begins mass downloads, and can't believe Ben actually counted all his files. :-lol :-lol :-lolGrab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

[Guest Ashleigh Davidson]

Tom, Personally I would find it more helpful if you offered the reasons they he/ she / they/ gave for wanting files removed ?I'm pleased also you have pointed out it was not Dave who initially requested this.RegardsAsh

[Jeff Nielsen 1,386]

Without reading the responses I think that once an individual or company enters the public domain and releases a free product or donates anything free, should do so knowing that those items are released from his/her custody and could be used in any legal manner by the receiving parties without the donator being liable and held harmless from any actions resulting in the use of their items. Further the donator will not be liable for any support issues or harm that could come from the use of those items.This is sometimes called "without a written warranty".In Avsim's case, justified reasons for removing files might be due to anything they might suspect could cause harm to another computer and/or any copyright issues, whichever applies.Now given that freeware authors aren't liable for supporting their products, they should also not have the right to pull files already given to someone.I've seen this attitude in other volunteer organizations before and it can be very messy. I think Avsim (if they don't already) should have the uplaoder check a box that states whatever they are uploading is considered to be "released" by the creator(s)and Avsim may use these files as they see fit.Just my 2C.

[N400QW 205]

This reply is directly to the question posed by Tom Allensworth.Tom, It would seem that you would do freeware developers a favour if a policy rule for uploads/removal of files were clearly spelled out.A suggestion would be to allow a freeware developer to remove his files ONCE from the library and not allow him to upload to the library again.Of course the idea here is to give a freeware developer "something to chew on" before making a rash decision like removing his files from the library.Note: I have not researched your rules so you may already have something similar in place.

[Guest Madtrapper]

Hi Tom:Tough fence to sit on.I have total respect for the freeware developersthat make this hobby what it is. Removing a freeware developers files might be the right thing to do,but where would this end. Example: I asked Avsim to Remove my 100 files that I have uploaded.Other freeware developers have uploaded files to avsim using my macros for scenery or my aircraft that they have repainted.. etc etc.should all these be removed also?glad I am on the fence.Cheers

[Guest amtran752]

Well he can sue you if you keep hosting his files under the agreements when he uploaded them.Sounds like you wanna do an FSPlanet deal to me.Check out ebay, they sell freeware.

[Guest]

I can fully understand where both sides of the debate stand here.If an author has files in file libraries he will continue to get flames and abusive emails for a long time after he decides he wants nothing more to do with it.While the file will still be on peoples' harddisks and CDs if it gets removed from websites at least the number of new users of the addon will slow to a trickle at best, reducing that abuse to next to nothing (assuming people who don't like the addon aren't going to distribute it to spite the author).If indeed an author seems to be demanding removal just to spite one website (as a certain author Joe alludes to is likely to have in mind given his remarks past and present about this site) the question becomes one of principles.Would Avsim be taking the moral high ground by removing the files or by refusing removal for such petty reasons?OTOH I can fully understand calling uploads a contribution or donation to the community and therefore becoming the property of the community as a whole rather than of the author.But given the license terms included with ever more addons that's not a position I think can be defended legally at this time.It would require Avsim to require certain conditions in any license and refusing files into the (public part of) the library that don't meet those terms.These could include a statement that the contribution is now in the public domain for use only (leaving distribution rights up to the archive as long as no money is charged for distribution), which would effectively mean the author signs over ownership of the contribution to the general public.This might however reduce the number of contributions received as many seem to want to have highly restrictive licenses.

[MartijnPleines 0]

Hi, Tom,Unless legal costs are to be involved, I wouldn't worry about it too much.These incidents do seem to happen a few times each year, sometimes with high-profile authors/files, and I have seen quite a few cases where the author did decide to return after some time, in some cases a couple of years.live and let live. It's still a hobby (I hope) and, in the case of freeware at least, a take-it-or-leave-it kind of attitude seems appropriate to me. Even if they want to return the files at a later stage, I'd say allow them to do so, unless they appear to be making a habit of leaving-and-returning and making a nuisance of themselves for the library management team. So, I agree with your stated policy-ask the author to take his/her time to reconsider, but if he/she still insists, remove the files. This is the most decent course of action IMO.I don't think it would be a good idea to go to a once-uploaded-always-available style of policy, this might deter some authors to upload; even if they have no intention to pull their files in future, they might shy away from such a lifelong commitment.Freeware authors do continue to make great contributions to the hobby, and the library is growing all the time. If someone wants to step down, be it temporarily or permanently, I think we should allow that person to do so, as a token of respect to his/her authorship and contributions in the past, if not his/her personal feelings.Best,Martijn