Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Louis8

PAVD Valdez

Recommended Posts

Orbz had a real good sale on last month so i bought the payware Valdez .(real nice ) I'm a short hopper only so i've made maybe 15 flights from Whitehorse   CYXY into PAVD and it's a real nice ride,  but it would be a lot nicer if  I'd  get in there right, cause all my flights there are mess and sloppy. I have the latest airnav and using JON to transit. Has anyone have any tips to get in there like a real driver , cause it sure the heck ain't me  :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Orbz had a real good sale on last month so i bought the payware Valdez .(real nice ) I'm a short hopper only so i've made maybe 15 flights from Whitehorse   CYXY into PAVD and it's a real nice ride,  but it would be a lot nicer if  I'd  get in there right, cause all my flights there are mess and sloppy. I have the latest airnav and using JON to transit. Has anyone have any tips to get in there like a real driver , cause it sure the heck ain't me  :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try the approach from PEPPI.  It helps to be down to 7800 and close to if not in final landing configuration when joining the LOC at OLLEO.  There isn't much time to be in final landing configuration prior to the FAF.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fly the tutorials, particularly No. 2. Would using the HUD help you? Practice, practice, practice. (If there is some particular item of difficulty you are encountering, please specify; I'm sure there are people here who can help if they have more details.)

 

Jim Erwin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Louis, Wilhelm's suggestion is very good. That's usually what I do even if my route takes me to JOH VOR first (coming from the east). I extend my route from JOH to PEPPI to facilitate a straight-in approach on the LDA/DME-H. PEPPI is located 40 nm to the west of JOH along V319 (JOH 273 degree radial) but I fly JOH direct PEPPI for simplicity.

But if I were to use JOH as the transition to the OLLEO fix, I would start by programming a HOLD at OLLEO and let the aircraft enter the HOLD until it is inbound to OLLEO (057 degrees to OLLEO at 7800 ft) which aligns you with the final approach course. I would then cancel the HOLD and activate the approach mode when the LOC comes alive. Even if we are at some 20 miles from the airport when passing OLLEO fix, I would fly at no more than 180 KIAS from OLLEO and gradually reduce speed as I configure the aircraft for landing. Being too fast when starting the approach might make reducing speed difficult later as you descent.

In any case, be prepared to turn off the autopilot and hand-fly the aircraft at some point because as you probably already noticed, the LOC is not perfectly aligned with runway 06 center line (a few degrees offset) and requires the pilot to align itself visually even if landing runway 06.

To reduce the workload for landing, I usually make sure that I am fully configured for landing before reaching the 5.2 DME fix on the approach. If I manage my speed correctly, I will sometimes be able to set flaps 30 passing the 11.2 DME fix. I can then concentrate on hand-flying the aircraft visually as soon as visual conditions exist.

Departing PAVD can be a challenge too if the ceiling is low. On the NAKED SID, you must fly visually to BLIGH, which is some 28 nm from the airport, at no less than 1900 ft. If the ceiling is lower than the mountain's tops, it forces you to navigate the fjiord visually to avoid the mountains until able to go directly to BLIGH.

Have fun in PAVD !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've flown into PAVD a couple of times with the DC6, where the techniques would be much different from a NGX, and then only during daylight.  Weather permitting, I fly below the ceiling if visibility allows a view of the channel from JOH towards fix PAYDI and intercept the LDA there at 6400 MSL.  From there is a matter of speed control and going visual below 4460 ft mins. Be sure to not over shoot or come in to high and fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, NBouc said:

But if I were to use JOH as the transition to the OLLEO fix

The JOH transition is NOPT so ATC approval would be needed to enter holding and proceed from the Hold. :smile:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bluestar said:

The JOH transition is NOPT so ATC approval would be needed to enter holding and proceed from the Hold. :smile:

You are correct Wilhelm and that's a point worth mentioning for the OP's benefit. In the simulated world, we have the advantage of simulating that ATC provides the clearance we need (unless we are flying online, of course)  ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bluestar said:

The JOH transition is NOPT so ATC approval would be needed to enter holding and proceed from the Hold. :smile:

That.  And the key is to get your aircraft in a manageable speed configuration BEFORE you reach OLLEO.  You have plenty of time to do that from JOH.  You should be able to have your speed under control to allow a turn to intercept the localizer, and STILL be able to establish the correct crossing speed in the 7 miles to JIKAN, where you would deploy landing gear for the remaining 11.8 miles to the runway.  You have plenty of DISTANCE to do everything you need to do without going 40 miles past JOH just to get a "straight in" approach.  Manage your airspeed and aircraft configuration properly, and you have PLENTY of time to fly a precise JOH/OLLEO approach without anything going haywire on you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I assume I can find VMC conditions before entering the channel between JOH and Valdez Bay... there I simply request a contact approach from ATC and proceed visually to the intercept the LDA for backup guidance to the destination.  Of course if it is night or solid IMC then fly it as published.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, downscc said:

here I simply request a contact approach from ATC

If already cleared for the approach I wouldn't think that it would be necessary to request a contact approach?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bluestar said:

If already cleared for the approach I wouldn't think that it would be necessary to request a contact approach?

True, but then one has to either fly as published or be on vectors.  I imagine a case where I want to intercept the final course at PAVDI, not an IAF, by running the scud as long as the ceiling lets me both stay at 6400 and see the 3000-4000 mountains along the channel.  This is how I approached in the DC6, instead of heading to OLLEO, which requires me to be at 7800 potentially in the icy clouds, I get below the scud at JOH and maintain visual with the mountains and channel.  I'm no longer protected by ATC rather I'm protecting myself by requesting the contact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, downscc said:

by running the scud

I swore once I left SE Asia and got back to the "world" I'd never run scud again. :smile:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it’s nice to see that a lot also find this an interesting place .I always  fly in the morning around 6 Am so there’s never any ATC and a lot of times its socked  in solid and I can’t do the flight (active sky next ). Flying in there when the sun comes up is so nice . It’s not that I can’t get in, it’s that my flights are always a fight and never smooth and I’m behind the airplane so once you get behind you know what that’s like . Any way I took a bunch of notes and will keep trying .The hud I’m starting to get into, when you turn at Olleo and head straight down there’s a mountain peak to make sure you don’t clip ,and I’m not configured properly at OLLEO I think is the big problem. I’ll try it from PEPPI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just did a run using PEPPI had almost everything hanging out at OLLEO , seemed a little strange to be configured that high , but got in there a lot more in control ,I hand bombed it in by hand and went for the vasi's when i cleared to tops over the water in the bay.But she sure is one fine ride  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also purchased this scenery a few months ago, along with several other ORBX's Alaska offerings - and noticed that a couple of them were quite challenging.  Flying the LDA/DME-H approach into Valdez Pioneer Field was rough the first couple of times I tried it, and although my ultimate technique only applies in meteorological conditions that allow visibility under 5K feet, it works:  Use the HUD in conjunction with the terrain guidance and simply fly down (slowly) the mouth of the Valdez Arm which turns into Shoup Bay.  The  airport will appear on the left at the end of the bay and if you're configured properly you can grease it in. 

In real life, this isn't an airfield I would try landing in at night or in foggy conditions (at my current skill level).  That mountain ridge at OLLEO isn't what usually gets me, it's the rapid decent required once clearing it.   And as someone else mentioned, the approach doesn't exactly match the runway alignment.  

The only other ORBX airport to give me such a challenge is Telluride, but again if the conditions are right you can follow the river and let it guide you to the airport.

Mark Trainer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mtrainer said:

The only other ORBX airport to give me such a challenge is Telluride, but again if the conditions are right you can follow the river and let it guide you to the airport.

The Orbx Sedona is just a short trip East of Vegas and an excellent afternoon cruise in the DC6.  I've taken the B736 into there but short runway on top of mesa is interesting.  The LOC/DME approach in to Aspin (KASE by Aerosoft) is the steepest descent I've flown for an instrument procedure at 6.59 deg, more suited to the JS41 than a B737 of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where more or less are you fully configured Mark ,?as suggested here I'm using OLLEO and  I'm trying to get used to the Hud , i've been going to PEPPI -its a little longer flight but gives me time to get this slippery thing slowed up .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:41 AM, Louis8 said:

....but gives me time to get this slippery thing slowed up .

Let's see if I can help you out, Louis.  :gaul:

First, taking a PMDG 737 into PAVD is not going to be an everyday experience.  It's doable for sure, but you will have to look at the "math" of the approach and get the airplane into a more "stable" approach configuration much earlier than normal.  Let's look at the math using the approach chart.

Note that the "overhead" view of the approach SEEMS to indicate it's 20 miles from OLLEO to "the airport".  Cool, but also misleading to a non-experienced pilot (or even some experienced ones, too).  But the "side view" on the chart shows it's only 18.6 miles to the RUNWAY.  The difference is the top view is relative to the localizer DME distance which is located BEYOND the runway.  You need to land your airplane ON the runway, so you have to "get it down" to the runway threshold in only those 18.6 miles shown on the "side" view.

Now, the crossing altitude at OLLEO is 7800 feet.  BUT your Missed Approach Point is at HORUL, 4 MILES BEFORE THE RUNWAY, at the MDA (Minimum Descent Altitude) of 4460 feet.  So, you have to lose 7800 minus 4460 equals 3340 feet altitude in 14.6 miles (OLLEO to HORUL), not the 18.6 total miles to the runway. Still, that should not be a problem at a stable aircraft configuration at a reasonable approach speed.  If you cross OLLEO at even 180 knots, you would travel (roughly) 3 miles per minute and take almost 5 minutes to travel the 14.6 miles to HORUL.  You could have less than a 1000' per minute descent rate and still do it.  But if you cross OLLEO at say 160 knots, you have even MORE time, and seeing as this is an "unconventional approach" (sorta) taking a B737 into PAVD...an airplane that IS hard to slow down quickly (as you already know)...just get configured earlier to cross OLLEO at a slower airspeed to begin with.  The descent angle of the approach is much steeper than normal all the way down to HORUL, and if you are "fast" in the B737 it will be difficult to slow it down in a way to maintain a stable approach.  NOTE that you have 8.8 miles from OLLEO to LOCIB to lose 2300 feet.  Should not be an issue if you are flying at a reasonable approach speed BEGINNING at OLLEO.  Then from LOCIB to HORUL you have ANOTHER 6 miles to lose only 1040 feet to the MDA of 4460 feet.  Again, no problem if you are ALREADY in a stable descent at a reasonable approach speed.  Then you have the additional 4 miles from HORUL (once you see the runway if you see it) to get lined up with the runway visually.  That should also not be a problem IF you are already in a stable configuration at the proper approach speed.  At HORUL you don't want to have to bleed off 30 - 40 knots airspeed for landing, so be at your landing speed with "everything hanging out" BEFORE you get there.

It's fun doing a B737 approach into PAVD.  You just gotta get the airplane "stable" at a slower speed sooner than on other "normal" approaches because of the No Procedure Turn at OLLEO, and the steeper than usual descent angle of the approach to the runway after that.  But there is plenty of Time and Distance to make it happen.  Heck, after you do it a few times in the B737, try it in the B747. It can be done in the simulator. I have several T-Shirts from THAT too. :laugh:    

What would I do in your case for now?  Fly the JOH to OLLEO approach, and get your B737 stable at 160 knots BEFORE you reach OLLEO.  You have plenty of time to do that between JOH and OLLEO.  Then the turn at OLLEO keeps you "on track" without overshooting everything, and the upcoming descent works fine all the way to the MDA at HORUL.  Just make sure you are at your FINAL approach speed and configuration BEFORE you get to HORUL too (final approach configuration with "everything hanging out" at HORUL).  When you do that, you don't have to mess with anything else other than hand-flying the remaining "visual approach" to the runway.

 

 

Edited by FalconAF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ryan and everyone else ,man she is a trip this one . I was high at Olleo , sloppy but got it in,need more practice . My young lad is Captain on one of these but it's always a fight for him to show me anything so i just come here now when i'm stuck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NGX is a slippery thing for sure. When at flight idle I hit F1 as a habit now as its well known that throttle controllers can be iffy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...