Farewell FSW

[pmb 5,137]

8 minutes ago, DrumsArt said:

Personally I have been waiting since the beginning for some news about planes worthy of A2A, Pmdg, some Aerosoft, Milviz and so and so.....

That's certainly a club foot IPACS couldn't get any plane developers on board so far. I mostly fly GA, but even their Learjet is very nice and comes with an excellent tutorial.

I know, this helps neither you nor Bob, but there are just different people under the sun - fortunately I may admit.

Kind regards, Michael

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

22 minutes ago, DrumsArt said:

Something tells me that if Aerofly fs2 moved a little more at the level of aircraft simulation with the talented developers we know, the world of flight simulation could evolve towards something very new and attractive.

I'm not going to spend a lot time commenting on AFS2, except to say like all 3D apps that run under Windows, it is primarily limited by the OS and video drivers. The reason that some 3D apps seem better, is that they've ignored key components of the flight sim experience. One thing one has to give DTG credit for, in FSW, they attempted to create a 64 bit version of a whole world, full-featured flight simulator. DTG managed to create some nice user aircraft and made an honest effort at weather. People often point to DCS as some shining example of what a flightsim should be. But DCS isn't a whole world flight simulator. And DCS has only limited aircraft available.

And AFS2 is still missing so much that even though it covers the whole world, that world is fairly empty. The performance that AFS2 users see is mostly due not to some new-fangled technology that the developers stumbled upon, but rather the lack of features.  As an example, with Windows 10, a i7-6700k and a GTX 1080, i get virtually the identical performance in both P3d4 and XP11. That wasn't always the case as my "fully loaded" P3d4 was never as smooth as XP11. But when I added 3rd party weather, improved scenery, AI Traffic and a viable ATC utility to XP11, that advantage evaporated.

It's nice to think that someone can invent the proverbial flightsim "perpetual motion machine" (where the user gets everything at a minimal cost) , but that isn't going to happen unless there are drastic changes in both hardware and software technology. Either local storage is going have to get a whole lot larger and faster or the flightsim may have to be cloud-based altogether. And that will require much higher speed Internet connections than are readily available today to consumers. VR headset resolution has to improve and the cost has to go down. I figure by the time all this happens, all real life aircraft will be drones with no human pilots, so the simulators will be made obsolete by reality.

[Bobsk8 12,735]

14 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

I figure by the time all this happens, all real life aircraft will be drones with no human pilots, so the simulators will be made obsolete by reality.

Very true, both Boeing and Airbus are now working on pilot less aircraft, and when that becomes available, the Air carriers will see their biggest expense, the pilots, disappear. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by n4gix
Removed excessive quote. Please don't quote a "wall of text" for a one sentence reply!

[rtodepart 761]

3 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

It's nice to think that someone can invent the proverbial flightsim "perpetual motion machine" (where the user gets everything at a minimal cost) , but that isn't going to happen unless there are drastic changes in both hardware and software technology

exactly . I know some will disagree but we are at a point where in order to use all the new features of new PC hardware we need to start fresh and that means older Addons wont be compatible anymore ....

[steve310002 1,198]

Just saw this about FSW. I remember back in January saying in a post that this might happen if they continue to so slowly roll out updates. I became especially concerned when they took FSW out of beta with so many key features missing. It was a questionable strategy that I hate to say it but it was never going to work. They at least needed some fundamentals in there like at least one jet, AI traffic, real-world weather and an update to the terrain engine at a minimum to gain momentum. These should have been put in place in Alpha, never mind Beta, let alone missing in the 'full release' version.

Looking at back it and with no disrespect to the development team whom I am sure had no say in it, the management of Dovetail seem to be more interesting in making a quick buck than having a long term strategy. A similar story with Train Sim World which has a lot going for it and an equal amount missing.

A real shame, as with a little more investment and better planning I believe it would have succeeded.

[tonywob 4,769]

9 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

My takeaway is that the community is stuck at the bottom of a huge, deep, partisan rut, where little to no new sunlight can get in.

Yep, and anything new is hit with huge criticism and is immediately destined to fail if you believe the majority of posts here. Our community here are the most vocal and are actually only a small part of the bigger picture (Although likely we spend the most money on addons).

I'm all for new simulators coming along, they force the competition to move forward and benefit all of us. A few years ago, the only choice we had was a dead FSX and X-Plane 8/9, so we really have nothing to moan about these days, there are lots of choices. Anyone who isn't married to a single simulator or addon developer would appreciate this 🙂

I'm not too excited that the future of the ESP platform is now firmly in LM's hands. Whilst they have improved the engine, they aren't aiming to produce a consumer sim for the masses, but rather a closed/niche community of professional users (with deep pockets). FSW was aimed at normal consumers who buy games through Steam etc, it sadly failed and suffered exactly the same fate as FSX and Microsoft Flight. At least AF2 and X-Plane are still going strong and not showing any signs of dying out (Without these two sims, there would be no consumer flight sim available)

Flyinside are also releasing their simulator this year. Let's hope that doesn't immediately get attacked as well.

 

[chelmo 42]

9 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

Yet FSW took that to heart and offered the entire world.....

And people still turned up their noses. The truth is that some people live in an FSX/P3D universe, and there appears to be zero chance they will ever seriously consider anything new/different that might threaten their years of prior commitment/investment.

People are cheering FSW's demise the exact same way they did for FLIGHT, even though DTG carefully avoided most of FLIGHTS supposed faults (and still got no slack)

My takeaway is that the community is stuck at the bottom of a huge, deep, partisan rut, where little to no new sunlight can get in.

Dovetail's reputation gained through Train Simulator (which I own) and TSW (which I don't) preceded it. And it was a reputation which they did absolutely nothing to change so far as FSW is concerned; if anything, they seemed to wish to go down an even more restrictive route.

In short, if FSW had been produced by anyone else other than Dovetail it might have stood a chance. The blame for its demise is with their management, not the community.

[torium 207]

1 hour ago, tonywob said:

FSW was aimed at normal consumers who buy games through Steam etc, it sadly failed and suffered exactly the same fate as FSX and Microsoft Flight.

And thus there are a number of new potential friends who will not be able to get into this amazing hobby.

As a new friend just phrase it: - "Thank You Dovetail games for introducing me to the world of flying. I bought DFS and you taught me how to fly for under $15.00 .Thank You again for giving me FSW for free and challenging me more and adding to my experience in the world of flying .Because of your games I now look at flying and the avaition world with a new respect."

So sad that so many in the flight sim community is only concerned with his own navel. But Aerofly FS2 appears to be a good option for beginners. Will also be interesting to see what Flyinside can deliver.

[torium 207]

2 hours ago, uncle_adolph said:

The blame for its demise is with their management, not the community.

I totally agree that: - "The blame for its demise is with their management". But surprisingly many from the flight sim community have almost applauding the FSW closure. They have condemned FSW from day one - without even trying the product.

[Bobsk8 12,735]

37 minutes ago, torium said:

I totally agree that: - "The blame for its demise is with their management". But surprisingly many from the flight sim community have almost applauding the FSW closure. They have condemned FSW from day one - without even trying the product.

I think more than a few had experience with the way DTG conducted their operation , and knew that FSW was going to go down the same path as Train Sim. The hand writing was on the wall from day one. 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Nobody wants to fly in a tiny area of the world. Period. 

Well, I do. I've been doing nothing else for years and years. I rather have a tiny but awesome area to fly around in than a mediocre entire world. Period. 😉

[Guest]

11 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

The performance that AFS2 users see is mostly due not to some new-fangled technology that the developers stumbled upon, but rather the lack of features. 

I used to say this isn't the case and that when I fly the Aerofly Dash 8 over Orbx LOWI with all settings at ultra I am still getting the smoothest experience possible and that the overhead is HUGE. However, I am using VR again for Aerofly and if I enable the insane shadows I am getting stutters here and there. An overhead still is nothing but an overhead and every overhead can be filled. I still believe Aerofly FS 2 performs a LOT better than P3D or XP ever will but time will tell if the current smootness will remain when things like ATC and weather and 'study level' planes have been added. If that ever happens... Something I am sceptic about...

Anyway, it's nice to have various sims. I can't wait to give TrueEarth Netherlands a try in Aerofly FS 2 and see how it performs in that sim.

9 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Very true, both Boeing and Airbus are now working on pilot less aircraft, and when that becomes available, the Air carriers will see their biggest expense, the pilots, disappear. 

OMG!!! That's the end of flightsimming then! How in the world can we simulate being a pilot in a pilot less aircraft!!! 😩

3 hours ago, tonywob said:

Flyinside are also releasing their simulator this year. Let's hope that doesn't immediately get attacked as well.

 

I never hear anything about that one... Does anyone here knows how things are going with that sim?

Another sim I am still looking forward too is Deadstick Bush Flight Simulator... but it's been very silent since their press release in October last year: I can't imagine they are still planning on releasing the sim in July...! Of course that would be a totally different sim than P3D/XP/FSW/Aerofly FS 2.

[WotanUK 289]

5 minutes ago, J van E said:

Well, I do. I've been doing nothing else for years and years. I rather have a tiny but awesome area to fly around in than a mediocre entire world. Period. 😉

I really don't understand this.  If that is your desire may i suggest GTA V, you can even get out of the plane and rob a car or play tennis.

There is no way the community is to blame for the demise of FSW, i will bet most of us bought FSW, i certainly did, the first day it was released; believe me, i would have dropped P3D with no hesitation had FSW offered me anything beyond a 64-Bit version of FSX without the add-on support.  I am not sure why Mr Wrob thinks we are all ultra partisan, i have XP (albeit XP10), P3D, FSW, FSW, FSX SE, DCS, IL2, Falcon 4.  I want a great sim, if that was XP i would be using XP.

I think that the really sad part of this is that the career system actually was something that interested me and appeared to offer something that P3D doesn't and probably wouldn't offer.  In my opinion DTG have probably dropped this before they really gave it a chance

[Bobsk8 12,735]

4 minutes ago, J van E said:

 

OMG!!! That's the end of flightsimming then! How in the world can we simulate being a pilot in a pilot less aircraft!!! 😩

I

 Simmers do it all the time now, when they launch a Trans Atlantic Flight, turn on the autopilot at 600 feet, watch TV,  go to sleep, waking up the next morning to land. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, WotanUK said:

I really don't understand this.  If that is your desire may i suggest GTA V, you can even get out of the plane and rob a car or play tennis.

 

Seriously...? Are you kidding? I totally don't understand that you don't understand. Because I can understand it if someone likes to have the entire world to fly in. Then why is it impossible to understand there also are people who don't care about that? And what does this have to do with robbing a car or playing tennis? 😕Is anyone who sims in a different way than you prefer a childish gamer or whatever? Really odd reply.