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Bobsk8

Farewell FSW

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Looks like this evolved into a A vs. B vs. C ... and as usual lots of incorrect information about P3D. 

1.  P3D V4 isn't the same as FSX, anyone saying this obviously hasn't used P3D V4

  • 64bit (no OOMs)
  • HDR
  • Dynamic Reflections
  • Dynamic Lighting
  • 3X+ Autogen draw distances (and density)
  • True 3D SpeedTrees that interact (animate) with weather changes
  • Volumetric 3D water which also interacts with weather changes (adjusting wave heights and frequency)
  • Volumetric fog
  • Cloud Shadows
  • Detail precipitation (much improved snow/rain depicition)
  • Higher performance Effects processing
  • Native support for higher quality AA (upto 8X SSAA)
  • Improved weather engine and weather PDK
  • DX11 with much improved support for shaders (allowing for windshield rain/snow/fog effects)
  • Support for high resolution landclass textures up to 1024 providing huge improvement in distance detail
  • RAW control device calibration system (not based on OS)
  • A long list of additional features in the SDK/PDK not available for FSX
  • Fixes to long standing bugs
  • Full VR support
  • Small adjustments to the core flight model physics

2.  P3D V4 does NOT cost $199.00 -- that's for the Pro version which at it's base is no different than the Academic for $59.95 ... in fact, if you want to use 3rd party products like VRS TacPack then the Academic version is the better option: https://www.prepar3d.com/product-overview/prepar3d-license-comparison/

XP11 "engine" has not changed, it has evolved.  P3D "engine" has not changed, it has evolved.  FSW "engine" has not changed it has evolved ... key being that NONE of these development teams re-wrote the entire platform from scratch ... there is a very obvious reason for that.  Both P3D/XP11 are designed with the purpose of providing a base platform from which you, a developer, or anyone who's interested can build and improve on the base ... both provide SDKs/PDKs, go to town.  If that's not your gig, buy 3rd party, or download the freeware ... endless volumes of it here on AVSIM and elsewhere.

If you want my "personal opinion", if P3D implements PBR, which does NOT involve re-writing the engine as is obvious from FSW implementation of PBR, but will require 3rd party textures to be updated.  AND, better quality resolution photoreal it will continue to dominate the FS market and is in no better hands than a large defense contractor that is not subject to the same kind of financial exposure as other platforms ... it's probably the best home a flight simulator platform could currently be at until someone with $100-200 Million US decides they want to do better with no guarantee of return on investment.

Flight simulation can be as cheap or as expensive as you want to make it.  The only one consistent element of success is that the FS platform MUST provide an accessible and relatively easy to use SDK/PDK to anyone who buys into the platform ... without that, failure will be assured for this "type of market".

My 2 cents,

Cheers, Rob.

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5 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Flight simulation can be as cheap or as expensive as you want to make it.  The only one consistent element of success is that the FS platform MUST provide an accessible and relatively easy to use SDK/PDK to anyone who buys into the platform ... without that, failure will be assured for this "type of market".

My 2 cents,

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

Rob, don't go there. You will get the armchair lawyers going on about how the average Joe cant use the academic license............:)

Edited by n4gix
Removed excessive quote. Please don't quote a "wall of text" for a one sentence reply!

Glenn

Ryzen 3700X, X570 Pro Wifi, 32GB 3600mhz RAM, Nvidia Titan Xp "Galactic Empire", RM750x PSU, H700 case, 2x NVMe M2 SSD, 1x SATA SSD

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Gonna become a "defend my chosen sim" thread?

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Just Flight Beta Tester
 
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15 hours ago, Boomer said:

You obviously haven't flown p3d...the improvements by LM are significant, and 64 bit even more so. 

And until Austin acknowledges there are many who fly high fidelity heavies with AI traffic, XP is not there and remains a GA flight sim.

Not to derail the thread but I agree. XP has a lot going for it but it just recently had a painful addon (in terms of loading) for seasonal texturing (basically 2 seasons) and ATC integrated with traffic AI which can be easily integrated with traffic addons the like of MyTraffic, UT etc. WT3 is a decent stopgap with some obvious limitations but these are persistent issues.

 

Back to FSW though. The 64 bit was a welcome change but it failed in making an easy path to 3rd party integration. Which was virtually non-existent to highly problematic.


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ill be 38 may 5 but the day we can all learn to respect each others opinions AND STOP defending our favorite sim and trying to make other people be on your side ,,,,  THAT DAY may become my second birthday ..... 


Image removed as image is no longer available.

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Well, I'm obviously very sorry to hear of the closure of FSW. They were not there to be corridored by some kind of business model, they were passionate about the way forward for their simulator. They are very saddened to see it go. They deserve respect for having a go at it, it was never going to be easy.

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Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com

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2 minutes ago, rtodepart said:

ill be 38 may 5 but the day we can all learn to respect each others opinions AND STOP defending our favorite sim and trying to make other people be on your side ,,,,  THAT DAY may become my second birthday ..... 

I'll be 66 in less than 6 months (shrinking as readers hold up garlic and a cross) and don't expect to see universal agreement on matters flightious simulationus in my life-time. :cool:

Kind regards,

Stephen

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13 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Gonna become a "defend my chosen sim" thread?

I don't know if that was directed at me, but I fully understand that people are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of the facts.  I have no interest in changing someone's belief.  However, what I've provide about P3D above are simple facts, belief isn't required.  Someone might actually get some accuracy out what has been inaccurately presented about P3D, however many will "goto last page" type what they want to believe and continue on ... fair enough, but facts do actually exist in this world.

I was pretty clear when I introduce my "personal opinion" segment of my post.

Cheers, Rob.

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28 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I don't know if that was directed at me, but I fully understand that people are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of the facts.  I have no interest in changing someone's belief.  However, what I've provide about P3D above are simple facts, belief isn't required.  Someone might actually get some accuracy out what has been inaccurately presented about P3D, however many will "goto last page" type what they want to believe and continue on ... fair enough, but facts do actually exist in this world.

I was pretty clear when I introduce my "personal opinion" segment of my post.

Cheers, Rob.

It was directed at the tendency of these types of conversations to descend into a very predictable sales pitches back and forth about why a particular sim (place chosen name here) is now the obvious contender for world leadership.

It's almost like a ping pong match at this point. The teams have their distinctive jerseys, all the (same) arguments have been made repeatedly, and individuals have defined roles like characters in Cheers.

And unfortunately, you can usually see the eventual derailment/threadlock coming, 3 parsecs away.

I'd like to hear more about FSW and what led up to this.

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Just Flight Beta Tester
 
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   If I only had a "Magical Software Blender" where I could put one part each of all the flight sims, then I would have what I want, lol... I thought maybe FSW would become the answer, but it didn't work out as expected. Come to think of it, this happens a lot in all aspects of life. Therfore, it is what it is. Good luck to the DTG FSW team in whatever they do. 

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Scott H...

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35 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

I'd like to hear more about FSW and what led up to this.

DTG's very poor business model, which they refused to change and which put off many key developers to begin with:

Lack of development then put off many potential customers.

Lack of customers eventually put off the remaining developers.

So, both engines failed resulting in the inevitable smoking hole on Monday 23 April.

I haven't been persuaded by anyone's arguments for P3D, X-Plane or Aerofly, and will stick with FS2004.

All those which came after are merely pale imitations. :biggrin:

Edited by A32xx
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Tim Wright  "The older I get, the better I was..."

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1 hour ago, Rob Ainscough said:

 

2.  P3D V4 does NOT cost $199.00 -- that's for the Pro version which at it's base is no different than the Academic for $59.95 ... in fact, if you want to use 3rd party products like VRS TacPack then the Academic version is the better option: https://www.prepar3d.com/product-overview/prepar3d-license-comparison/

 

Careful mate. I got moderated for pointing out that it's a big risk for some developers to base their business model around an assumption that this situation will continue. DTG made the mistake of believing MS when they insisted that P3D is not an FSX (or FSW) rival due to the way it's sold. That may change if another (more FS-savvy) publisher acquires the rights to develop a new sim from FSX (or Flight). 

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On 23.4.2018 at 3:01 PM, Cargostorm said:

That's true. A combination of the best features of P3D (e.g. weather and seasons) with X-plane (e.g. , flight modelling, lights) would be a most satisfying simulator...

Well. Not want to go offtopic, but the weather thing is starting to get better and better in XP11. Especially with the new update 1.09 of xenviro. That was the last Thing missing to be a Perfect Flight Sim for XPlane. And maybe better ATC. XPlane has even brought me away from P3D at the moment. And I am really not a long time xp user.

Back to topic. I think FSW had kinda Potential. Especially the Adventure thing was kinda funny, though not new. But it was simply not able to hold up with the other 3 concurrent Products.

AF2 VR, fast and modern engine and SDK

Prepar3d: Strong Community, SDK, Strong and good pay- and Freeware base because of SDK

XPlane 11 same as Prepar3d plus Outlook to go to Vulcan that will be a HUGE win for performance and Development.

Edited by rapsta
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I just hate it when someone decides to stir the P3D "letters that shan't be uttered" pot, (a Mod no less at that). Sorry I brought that stuff up earlier...nuff said!

Edit: Now back to our FSW regularly scheduled program...

Edited by TheFamilyMan

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