apollomaker

747-8 Brake Overheat Failure and Settings

Recommended Posts

Hello All --- others have entered comments about this general issue but I am still struggling. Basically, I cannot turn this failure OFF. It happens with every new flight of the 747-8F I am using. I am trying to get to a starting point of familiarization with the new plane where ALL FAILURES ARE LOCKED OFF UNCONDITIONALLY again as a starting point. Even though when I start a new flight the FMC indicates that no failures are activated, yet this brake/tire problem happens anyway on landing and it happens very easily. (very little braking on landing). 

FWIW, I am not running FSUIPC presently. Any comment there?? 

Some help and comments please!! 🤔  Thanks,  Bob

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Posted (edited)

Im curious on the outcome of this topic ^^ Im afraid you will hear the same as me, we are doing it wrong.... And that our joysticks brake for us.

Well, ive mentioned enough already how many times this never happened for me in the 747-400 but that doesnt seem to matter much too. Also, as far i know (if turned on) there is a red message in the lower left of the display that would tell me if im braking. As soon i hit the brake the message appears. And it NEVER appears here. I have this recorded now in my streams. Last time i had autobrake 2, a landing weight of no 300 tons, i deactivated autobrakes very early and rolled out until the far end, making the turn and pressing the brake exactly one time for a split second. ONE singly time in the whole landing and i got the brakes warning. Never hit it anymore and a bit before the parking the tires popped. From one brake....

Comeon....

Edited by SaenchaySor
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, SaenchaySor said:

Im curious on the outcome of this topic ^^ Im afraid you will hear the same as me, we are doing it wrong.... And that our joysticks brake for us.

Well, ive mentioned enough already how many times this never happened for me in the 747-400 but that doesnt seem to matter much too. Also, as far i know (if turned on) there is a red message in the lower left of the display that would tell me if im braking. As soon i hit the brake the message appears. And it NEVER appears here. I have this recorded now in my streams. Last time i had autobrake 2, a landing weight of no 300 tons, i deactivated autobrakes very early and rolled out until the far end, making the turn and pressing the brake exactly one time for a split second. ONE singly time in the whole landing and i got the brakes warning. Never hit it anymore and a bit before the parking the tires popped. From one brake....

Comeon....

The brake message does not appear because we do not use the sim braking system. We are using a custom brake system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, I'm getting the same problem.  I basically end up taxiing without brakes.  Brake settings are common to both my PMDG 747-700 and the -8 via FSUIPC and I do not have this problem with the 400 so imho it would appear to be software related.

 

Lon Duncombe

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the comments so far. But so far, that is it --- no answers/resolutions. 

Hopefully this will be examined by PMDG and we will have a fix. This should not be this difficult. 😀

I still cannot "TURN OFF" this problem in the FMC failures section even though when I take off the FMC says all failures are "NO" or "OFF". The tires/brakes still fail and VERY EASILY. 

Oh well, the message is out there --- hoping for some resolution.

Regards.  😁

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know guys... I really wish you'd be open to constructive advice rather than holding firm on the notion that the problem is with the simulation.

I've got dozens of sessions with the B748 during months of testing and the only time I've had braking problems is in early testing when we were seeing premature disabling of autobraking.  That problem was fixed.

i am using Saitek pedals axis assigned in P3Dv4.3, not using FSUIPC for any axis.  The solution might be as simple as allowing autobrake to slow you down to 40 kts and then LIGHTLY brake as required to exit the active.  Convince yourselves:  Land only using autobrake to a full stop.  Check brake termps.  Now land again using autobrake to 40 kts, pause and check the brake temps, unpause and brake your normal way of braking..... how are you doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW I haven't had this problem. With update for FSX:SE I have taxied by getting up to speed and let speed slowly degrade - add some power to get back up to where I want. Braked only on approaching the runway after letting it slow. On landing used Autobrake 2 and briefly manually braked near exit when speed was maybe 40-50. No problems taxiing to gate. I'm not sure this is the right way to handle the aircraft but at least I haven't had the brake problem. I believe the brake temp showed 1.5. (To me it's kind of like driving a big truck -- have to anticipate when and where to brake by letting off the accelerator.) I don't have rudder pedals.

 

Jim Erwin 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, downscc said:

I don't know guys... I really wish you'd be open to constructive advice rather than holding firm on the notion that the problem is with the simulation.

I've got dozens of sessions with the B748 during months of testing and the only time I've had braking problems is in early testing when we were seeing premature disabling of autobraking.  That problem was fixed.

i am using Saitek pedals axis assigned in P3Dv4.3, not using FSUIPC for any axis.  The solution might be as simple as allowing autobrake to slow you down to 40 kts and then LIGHTLY brake as required to exit the active.  Convince yourselves:  Land only using autobrake to a full stop.  Check brake termps.  Now land again using autobrake to 40 kts, pause and check the brake temps, unpause and brake your normal way of braking..... how are you doing?

Hi Dan -- I am going to try your suggestions and see what happens. But, this does not answer my problems in that when my failures for braking/tires are set OFF, they still activate. We should be able to have all failures shut off GLOBALLY. And they should stay off. That is my big problem. Any ideas appreciated. 

Thanks --- !!!

EDIT: Hi again Dan -- well I did drop back and again go through normal procedures for using the autobrake system and that does indeed work OK --- am going to experiment and test it further. Still have the issue of shutting down failure modes but we will get there  --- Thanks again.

Edited by apollomaker
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, downscc said:

I don't know guys... I really wish you'd be open to constructive advice rather than holding firm on the notion that the problem is with the simulation.

I've got dozens of sessions with the B748 during months of testing and the only time I've had braking problems is in early testing when we were seeing premature disabling of autobraking.  That problem was fixed.

i am using Saitek pedals axis assigned in P3Dv4.3, not using FSUIPC for any axis.  The solution might be as simple as allowing autobrake to slow you down to 40 kts and then LIGHTLY brake as required to exit the active.  Convince yourselves:  Land only using autobrake to a full stop.  Check brake termps.  Now land again using autobrake to 40 kts, pause and check the brake temps, unpause and brake your normal way of braking..... how are you doing?

I have to agree with Dan on this particular issue. I experienced this after aggressive braking due to not setting autobrakes to the appropriate level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, apollomaker said:

But, this does not answer my problems in that when my failures for braking/tires are set OFF, they still activate.

A brake failure would be a brake that failed to operate.  You brakes are operating as intended.  They are overheating, not due to failure but due to use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wish there was just a simply way to turn off this feature. Even with it off in the FMC it still happens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Wise87 said:

Wish there was just a simply way to turn off this feature. Even with it off in the FMC it still happens. 

Don't abuse the brakes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, downscc said:

Don't abuse the brakes.

Trust me when I say many of us are trying not too. It's gotten to the point were I don't even want to use them if I can avoid it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Wise87 said:

Trust me when I say many of us are trying not too. It's gotten to the point were I don't even want to use them if I can avoid it. 

It would be helpful if you explained how you are using the brakes.  What is your landing weight, what is your autobrake setting, when do you manually apply braking (at what speed)?  Estimate how many  seconds you decelerate while manually braking and to what speed do you slow to before coming off the brakes?

Edited by downscc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have managed to learn to land it without burning up my brakes and flattening most of my tires, but I agree that if we turn off failures completely, then my brakes should not burn and my tires should not flatten since those would be failures.

At any rate this 747-8 is a hoot to fly.  I love it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, signmanbob said:

I agree that if we turn off failures completely, then my brakes should not burn and my tires should not flatten since those would be failures.

As Dan stated before....

4 hours ago, downscc said:

A brake failure would be a brake that failed to operate.  You brakes are operating as intended.  They are overheating, not due to failure but due to use.

Watch your brake usage, then your brakes won't burn and your tires won't go flat. Not really sure how to make it any clearer. By your logic, the engines shouldn't have issues if you run them dry of oil if you fail to check your oil quantities prior to departure? Or why don't we remove the fuel density whilst we're at it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Folks,

I corrected my brake over heat problem by adjusting the slope in FSUIPC. Make sure there is a large null zone to avoid riding the brakes accidentally. 

A couple of things to consider when taxing at heavy weights:

1.  Heavy weight generate heat just by taxing.

2. Taxi slow, never more than 20KIAS. Consider 2 engine taxi if unable to keep the aircraft slowed down.

3.  Keep the engines at flight idle except to just get the aircraft moving.  

4. On landing:

     a. Be on speed.

     b.  If heavy keep the AUTOBRAKE at a minimum of 3. 

     c.  On touchdown immediately go to FULL Reverse thrust until 80 KIAS and then slowly come out of R/T.

     d.  Don't try to make the high speed turnoff unless below 40 KIAS, let the aircraft coast.  Do not retract flaps/slats until on the taxiway.

     e.  Never use full brakes unless for an emergency.

Hope this helps.

Grace and Peace. 

Edited by Bluestar
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Bluestar said:

it's an FAA requirement

Citation on that?

Sounds a lot like one of those things that someone tosses out in a crew room and nobody ever calls them on it. It's a bit pedantic, but there's a difference between "FAA requirement" and "opspec requirement" (that, yes, carries the weight of "reg," but I still protest that people make that clear).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

difference between "FAA requirement" and "opspec requirement" (that, yes, carries the weight of "reg,"

Good point.  It is corrected and I need to be more careful.  🙂

Grace and Peace,

Edited by Bluestar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Bluestar said:

Good point.  It is corrected and I need to be more careful.  🙂

Was it an opspec thing, though? Just out of curiosity by this point.

And thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 10/1/2018 at 5:22 PM, Olympic260 said:

The brake message does not appear because we do not use the sim braking system. We are using a custom brake system.

Ok this is interesting and probably would be an answer. But why it shows up if i hit the brake by my joystick button? Because that is a user-event that the sim registers and displays the message accordingly? Are these handled differently, i guess? Because when i hit my brakes  that message gets displayed. And if it would be the problem that my joystick doesnt let go of the brake i would think that this message would display too?

Im gonna try all those tips above, lets see.

Edited by SaenchaySor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, SaenchaySor said:

But why it shows up if i hit the brake by my joystick button?

Users that rely on a buttton or keyboard key for brakes are going to have to be very careful because the button/key commands 100% braking.... something that Wilhem and others have said you should only use in emergency.  If you do not have pedals then I recommend you use autobraking only until speed is below 20 kts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Dan.

And that is all ok and im always able to learn. Its just a bit confusing if something "works", or better said, one can make things "wrong" for a few thousand of hours without brake failures and suddenly one has to be ultra precise in behavior if "the brake system did not change from the -400". But im not looking for the errors in PMDG/the plane yet, i will go and do all that is explained and as it makes sense what i read i gladly will give all that a try.

Because im the last one who wants to make these topics about the 747. its my favorite and everyone around me knows it. Usually its me telling other ppl they do something wrong in this plane^^ When they have all those "bugs" where i never had on all those hours. So dont get me wrong pls.

But seems its shifted with the brake issue for some reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First Flight in the -8?  Perfect, Great, Dream Machine, Landing?  Nailed it.   Then...     Brakes hot, tires melt.......I laughed silly.   I think I was so happy the sim didn't go BSD, CTD, or OOM, the little, landing roll "error" and learning the ways of the PMDG Realism Force was the least of my worries....!!!   😄😜

Thanks for the input from those that posted about technique on Stopping-Finesse with our new lady 😎

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now