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blaunarwal

Tutorial #1 Engine out after takeoff

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Hi

Couldn't find an answer to this here. I'm actually working through tutorial #1 of the 737 NGX. Everything is done according to the tutorial. On the takeoff run, after VR, I rotate and lift off. The engines both go out immedialy after and I'm unable to avoid the disaster and crash. What is wrong? Tanks are full, a bit lower than 1/3 initially set. Both engine switches are set to "Cont" as advised. I may have missed something before. Could someone give me an advice, what could have happened.

Thanks and BRGDS

Daniel Mrawek

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1 hour ago, blaunarwal said:

What is wrong?

Usually a mixture a hardware mixture axis being set. If it drops anywhere below 100%, the sim interprets this as "OFF" in a jet. Since hardware usually doesn't send a perfect signal (varies by a few % here and there - this is the reason for null zones), any drop below that 100% will cause your engines to fail. Delete the axis, and/or set a null zone (if you have a program that can set a null zone at the top end of the axis).

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I'm not sure if this was my fault, not pushing the throttle to the very limit. I will also check if the axis is a bit unstable. I recently calibrated the stick.

I don't have software to define null zones at the moment. I used FSUIPC but recently got CTD of my sim caused by FSUIPC which I can't explain. I runs fine without it. So I don't have this. I use a Saitek flightstick with throttle.

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I would probably start with checking if there is an active failure set from the failures settings.

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1 hour ago, costamesa said:

I would probably start with checking if there is an active failure set from the failures settings.

It should be off, however, also possible. But should maybe not happen every time. So far I retried once and the engines went off again at the same time.

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Service based failures is off. Hope that's all. And come on, I just set up the flight as described in the tutorial. That should just not happen. 

Here's a video of my problem. Maybe one can see what's wrong. Otherwise I will start the whole tutorial one more time from the beginning and if it end like this again, I go back to default aircraft. 

Youtube Video of my flame out

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As Kyle said, it is usually a mixture axis assigned that you are unaware of.  Not throttle... mixture.  There is no mixture control in a jet but the simulator will kill a jet engine if you shut off the mixture because the simulator treats engine run/stop switches same as mixture controls.

Check the control assignments.

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9 hours ago, downscc said:

As Kyle said, it is usually a mixture axis assigned that you are unaware of.  Not throttle... mixture.  There is no mixture control in a jet but the simulator will kill a jet engine if you shut off the mixture because the simulator treats engine run/stop switches same as mixture controls.

Check the control assignments.

Yes I have a mixture axis on the stick. I understand now. So have to unassign this or map bot sliders to one engine each.

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I would unassign it when flying jets. If you have it assigned for when you are flying prop planes then you can turn it back on when flying those.

I have had this in the past, I have the Saitek X52 and have the mixture assigned to the slider on the throttle. Very useful when flying my 182, but when flying a jet after shutting down my Cessna and forgetting to reset the slider to max, it causes exactly what you described.

If your mixture is set to a slider or a rotational switch, then you could also try to calibrate it, or add a larger null-zone, that way you might be able to leave it mapped and don't have to unassign it.

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I tried unassigning the propeller axis and also tried to unsassign the throttle axis, just spooling up with F2. Unfortunately it does not cure the problem. I just wonder, why the fuel warning lights up. The pumps are running, the valves are open. 

As promised, I will start all over again, go through the tutorial from the beginning. Maybe it's just an oddity of the code somehow. But on the other hand, everything works that perfectly with this plane, I rather think something is not set correctly. I also don't believe it's the aborted takeoff routine, which wouldn't stop the engines, but rather use the reversers. 

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In the video as far as I see -quality is not the best in my browser for some reason- you have an "engine failure". So, once again, please check the if there is any "active failure", not "Service Based Failures".

 

 

Edited by costamesa

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18 hours ago, blaunarwal said:

I tried unassigning the propeller axis and also tried to unsassign the throttle axis, just spooling up with F2. Unfortunately it does not cure the problem. I just wonder, why the fuel warning lights up. The pumps are running, the valves are open. 

Looks like you removed the assignments for every engine-related axis except the one we've been referring to.

The prop axis has no effect on a jet model. The throttle has an obvious effect, but not on shutdown behavior. The mixture axis is the only one controlling the fuel flow, and that also explains the fuel warning light.

The axis that needs to be addressed is the mixture axis. This is the only one that will affect this behavior. When it comes to troubleshooting, while I understand wanting to try other things out and not wait for responses from people, it's best to stick to what we're offering up to you. Be sure to do exactly that, at the very least. So far, based on your responses, despite offering this up as a solution in the first response, I am not sure if you've followed my advice, and are, instead, seemingly doing just about everything else, to include blaming the code:

18 hours ago, blaunarwal said:

Maybe it's just an oddity of the code somehow.

Very, incredibly highly unlikely. If it were, this would've been seen more widely, and more often over the past six-ish years of NGX flying.

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And - in addition to what was said - please check your realism settings that automixture is off. My P3D sometimes decides that I am not able to use the rudders myself and turns on the autorudders... I have no idea why, but it’s annoying and mainly noticeable when you try to take off in crosswinds and find yourself next to the runway. 

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14 minutes ago, Ephedrin said:

My P3D sometimes decides that I am not able to use the rudders myself and turns on the autorudders...

Computers don't just do things to do them. I'd argue that something is causing this that isn't P3D.

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2 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

Computers don't just do things to do them. I'd argue that something is causing this that isn't P3D.

I really have no idea what could cause this.. as it actually means the P3D.cfg is being modified. Autorudder=0 to =1. It makes NO sense to me. I‘ve thought about the possibility that the computer loses the connection to my MFG pedals, resulting in an automatic autorudder activation... but is P3D doing that?? I don‘t know. But as I am quite used to troubleshooting on my own system and know many of its quirks I‘m not that easily to fool 😄 I have different display settings for different developers so I normally do a quick hop across PTA, NVIDIA and P3D settings anyway so it‘s not that much to check the realism settings too if something is not feeling normal.

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Ok, I took the default flight, instead of mine to start P3D4 and loaded the PMDG 737 afterwards and put it to Gatwick etc. as written in the tutorial. The flame out was gone, but now the VNAV does not engage. Even in the air, it does not get on. LNAV works. Speed did not change according to flightplan. So it's again something I guess with initialization of the plane. 

Yes and my joystick throttles are on. I changed it to one engine each. 

And I had no speed callouts. The speeds are set of course. So this aircraft seems not very reliable. A bit dissapointing for the most expensive aircraft in my hangar.

Of course I have to try one more time beeing absolutely in line with the tutorial, selecting the plane and airport before going into the sim. 

Edited by blaunarwal

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2 hours ago, blaunarwal said:

Ok, I took the default flight, instead of mine to start P3D4 and loaded the PMDG 737 afterwards and put it to Gatwick etc. as written in the tutorial. The flame out was gone, but now the VNAV does not engage. Even in the air, it does not get on. LNAV works. Speed did not change according to flightplan. So it's again something I guess with initialization of the plane. 

Yes and my joystick throttles are on. I changed it to one engine each. 

And I had no speed callouts. The speeds are set of course. So this aircraft seems not very reliable. A bit dissapointing for the most expensive aircraft in my hangar.

Of course I have to try one more time beeing absolutely in line with the tutorial, selecting the plane and airport before going into the sim. 

If VNAV doesn't engage it could be for a number or reasons, none of which are related to product quality.  The NGX has been out for at least six years, anything major like a VNAV that doesn't work would have been fixed before release/

This thread illustrates that you are having difficulty understanding basic concepts.  You should fly Tutorial 1 exactly as it is written, step by step, such that when you have a problem such as VNAV doesn't arm in step XX you should go back and make sure you followed all the steps leading up to step XX.  I usually will not arm because preflight is incomplete.

Initialization of the aircraft is a 20 sec countdown.... if it is doing that then you don't have an initialization problem.  The common error in loading the aircraft properly is not following the introduction and some will set the PMDG aircraft as their default, or will load the PMDG aircraft when another has already loaded.  All of these errors are common and are avoided if you follow the Introduction.

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Finally got it to work!

It is really necessary to start the sim with a default aircraft and the change the plane before starting the flight. Otherwise one gets the problems above. I did not miss a step in the flight preparation as far as I know. Since now I got through the tutorial really fast overreading the explanations going straight forward to the instructions and it worked since the aircraft was loaded correctly. Even though it had been 20 secs initializing before too, it did not work as expected, when another complex aircraft was loaded first, in my case the blackbox A321. They don't like eachother I guess. Not even starting the sim with the default aircraft and then loading the PMDG 737 works.

Thanks all for your help.

 

Edited by blaunarwal

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On 11/7/2018 at 5:45 PM, Ephedrin said:

I really have no idea what could cause this.. as it actually means the P3D.cfg is being modified. Autorudder=0 to =1. It makes NO sense to me. I‘ve thought about the possibility that the computer loses the connection to my MFG pedals, resulting in an automatic autorudder activation... but is P3D doing that??

It shouldn't be doing it by itself. Do you fly other addons apart from PMDG? One of those might be activating auto rudder. P3D.cfg gets written to with current config settings when you close P3D and if that was corrupted in some way that could cause incorrect values to be saved.

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1 hour ago, kevinh said:

It shouldn't be doing it by itself. Do you fly other addons apart from PMDG? One of those might be activating auto rudder. P3D.cfg gets written to with current config settings when you close P3D and if that was corrupted in some way that could cause incorrect values to be saved.

Can‘t think of any of my addons doing that.. FSL, Majestic, QW, A2A, TFDi, PMDG. All of them tell you to make sure it‘s disabled.. sometimes it‘s strange ^^

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