pilot10112

PMDG 747-8 expansion vs CS 757

Recommended Posts

Hi all, I have been looking for an aircraft at a reasonable price point to buy along with chase plane. The two I have decided are the PMDG 747-8 or the CS 757 base pack. I know the prices are very similar but I am torn. If I could get some info on why to buy and which one and why that would be great. Thanks!!!

Simon S.

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Do you already own the PMDG 747-400?  The -8 is an expansion and if you don't already own the -400, then you're looking about about $200 instead of $70.  If yo do own it though, I would hands down say the -8 over the CS 757.  CS aircraft usually look good and have a semi functional ability to use the systems, but you need to nurse them due to bugs/shortcomings.  The PMDG birds act like the real one, so you can concentrate on flying, not how to work around a bug. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, ESzczesniak said:

Do you already own the PMDG 747-400?  The -8 is an expansion and if you don't already own the -400, then you're looking about about $200 instead of $70.  If yo do own it though, I would hands down say the -8 over the CS 757.  CS aircraft usually look good and have a semi functional ability to use the systems, but you need to nurse them due to bugs/shortcomings.  The PMDG birds act like the real one, so you can concentrate on flying, not how to work around a bug. 

Yes I do have the PMDG 747-400 base. I do not have chaseplane and am buying it with either of these aircraft. The cabin on the CS seems very nice. I am also a fan of flying real world routes something I know the 748 is limited to because not many operate it. 

Share this post


Link to post

I hate to do this, 757 is got lots of bugs, FMC auto pilot VNAV etc. Just an example out of JFk to EWR with a 4000 FT level off the autopilot just busted the altitude by over 700 FT.

Yes it looks very nice, no question about but when you gonna learn the systems and have an understanding of what should happen and actually what it does you will be surprised.

Regarding the 748 you can fly any real world route you want (short or long) your imagination is the limit. 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rb0zy4e8qul9vix/BUST.JPG?dl=0

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, killthespam said:

I hate to do this, 757 is got lots of bugs, FMC auto pilot VNAV etc. Just an example out of JFk to EWR with a 4000 FT level off the autopilot just busted the altitude by over 700 FT.

Yes it looks very nice, no question about but when you gonna learn the systems and have an understanding of what should happen and actually what it does you will be surprised.

Regarding the 748 you can fly any real world route you want (short or long) your imagination is the limit. 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rb0zy4e8qul9vix/BUST.JPG?dl=0

Ok thank you so much for the info and insight.

Share this post


Link to post

Thank you all for all the help, it has been of great use. I have decided to go with the 747-8 and will eventually get the CS 757 when they fix more of the bugs. 

Thanks!!!

Simon S.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, pilot10112 said:

Thank you all for all the help, it has been of great use. I have decided to go with the 747-8 and will eventually get the CS 757 when they fix more of the bugs. 

Thanks!!!

Simon S.

If...

Captain Sim does not have a great record of actually fixing their bugs and making a complete product.  They usually stop at something akin to an early beta product you'd see from the bigger developers. 

We could use a good 757.  If the Level-D ever surfaces, or PMDG goes ahead. 

Share this post


Link to post

In its short life, the CS 757 has had six updates so far.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
55 minutes ago, nolonger said:

In its short life, the CS 757 has had six updates so far.

 

 

Yes, pardon my cynacism, but they released a third version of the 757 you have to buy all over again without ever cleaning up the last two versions to a reliable and flyable state. They take your money for half finished products promising service packs. Then they do a handful, but it peters out and major bugs remain. 

Share this post


Link to post

Have there been any recent news since the level-D 757 "beta" or whatever state is was supposed to be in popped up 1 or 2 years ago on some flight sim event?

Share this post


Link to post

I have the -8 and only use the F, I do short hops all the time. From cargo hub to hub.

It's a great addon and worth the money. I also am not into long-haul so never fly the pax version.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post

If you're a stickler for real world flight schedules Atlas Air and UPS has several 747-8 and 400 trips less then 5 or 6 hours. UPS has a hopp from KSDF to KMSP. Atlas has many short repositioning hop under two hours. Besides, there's always time compress. Unrealistic but an option.

Capt Sim and PMDG are not even in the same league. Like comparing NFL to Jr. High teams.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

I also am not into long-haul so never fly the pax version

I assume that you are only interested in flying real world routes?

Share this post


Link to post
32 minutes ago, PATCO LCH said:

Capt Sim and PMDG are not even in the same league. Like comparing NFL to Jr. High teams.

Probably not but the Captain Sim 757 is a complete redevelopment and costs much less than the 747.

It may not be perfect down to the last virtual rivet but nor does it deserve all these put downs.

I really like the PMDG 747, it is certainly my favourite airliner but I agree that it is not a like for like comparison with the CS 757.

Edited by nolonger

Share this post


Link to post
41 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I assume that you are only interested in flying real world routes?

I Fly them all the time for my VA's. BA-Ryanair-EasyJet. etc.

But for the -8F I can just do hops. My local Airport EGNX is now the biggest cargo hub in the UK (a guy who works there told me its overtaken EGLL)

So I do EGNX-EGLL around 25% full

EGLL- EDDK 60-70% full

EDDK-LIME 85ish full

LIME-LEBL 95-100 full

Return....

Fun and different. 

Share this post


Link to post
54 minutes ago, nolonger said:

It may not be perfect down to the last virtual rivet but nor does it deserve all these put downs.

As long as the "put downs" are the truth, it is important that potential customers know it. If it is not the truth then it is important to point out where it is not true with correct facts. I have not seen any disputes point by point so far in any topic concerning the CS757. 

I don't own the CS 757 mainly because of the whimsical pricing based on "757". To me that deserves a "put down and "put out". CS, in my view, "played" the FS community with that stunt, and I am amazed how anybody fell for it. Should the A2A Cessna 172 cost $17.20 or $172.00???  🤢🤮

To anybody who is enjoying the CS757, I'm seriously and truly happy for you.🙂

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, killthespam said:

I hate to do this, 757 is got lots of bugs, FMC auto pilot VNAV etc. Just an example out of JFk to EWR with a 4000 FT level off the autopilot just busted the altitude by over 700 FT.

Yes it looks very nice, no question about but when you gonna learn the systems and have an understanding of what should happen and actually what it does you will be surprised.

Regarding the 748 you can fly any real world route you want (short or long) your imagination is the limit. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rb0zy4e8qul9vix/BUST.JPG?dl=0

Eeee gads--what in the world are you doing climbing through 4000 with the flaps still down??!  😱

If I were to try and sum up the many threads I've read about the CS 757 automation, it'd be this: it works reasonably well if you fly it using manual modes (e.g. V/S mode for early climb and for descents), but that the automation, particularly VNAV using FMS profiles, is pretty flaky.  I guess that doesn't bother me tremendously, as the autopilot in the real world Gulfstream III had to be managed like that, so it "feels" natural.  The G-IV and G-V autopilots are very good, but we still used them mostly the same way, because a lightly-loaded G-V in VNAV will climb moonward like a Delta IV rocket with pretty uncomfortable (for the passengers) high deck angles.  So we did initial climb with V/S set to 2500-3000 fpm and selected VNAV later, usually passing 10000 ft, when the deck angles with full climb power set are more moderate.

My experience regarding Captain Sim and their propensity to leave projects unfinished is pretty much in line with what's been said here, and why I haven't bought one of their add-ons in quite a few years now.  It's always been puzzling to me why they would do so much good work and get so close and then leave even simple to fix things undone as they walked away to the next project.  Their 727, 707, and C-130 add-ons were all left unfinished like that, with empty and ultimately unfulfilled promises to get back to it later.  As a formerly famous comedian once said, it's like serving up a nice four-course steak dinner--on the lid of a trash can.  It does seem to me at least possible that *maybe* CS is more invested in longer-term and more complete development of the 757 than they have been in other projects, which would be smart, since they pretty much own the 757 space for FSX/P3D with no apparent competition out to the visible horizon.  So who knows, maybe there's hope of seeing the problems cleaned up eventually.  Can't say that experience would have me banking on it, though.

Now the 747-8?  It just works.  You have to drill down pretty deep to find even minor issues.  But the plane itself is a big beast that doesn't fit into the parking spots on at least 3/4 of my sceneries, so it's biggest limitation is a real one, sort of like the Concorde or A380--it is used for long-haul legs between a select and relative few airports that are capable of handing it.

Regards

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, PATCO LCH said:

UPS has a hopp from KSDF to KMSP.

Just what I wanted ti hear, as I just bought the KSDF from FSDT.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, vc10man said:

Just what I wanted ti hear, as I just bought the KSDF from FSDT.

I had to do a parking spot customization in GSX2 to get a parking spot for the 748 at KSDF...there isn't a single parking spot in the ADE large enough for the -8.

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Eeee gads--what in the world are you doing climbing through 4000 with the flaps still down??!  😱

 

From the picture, if you pay attention, the airplane being on a/p just busted the 4000 ft altitude (by 760 FT) and was recovering.

And for the "flaps still down" you should realize that the airplane was accelerating (look close at the speed trend vector) while flaps is in clean up schedule.  

So the real question here is "what in the world the a/p is doing climbing through 4000".

I understand that you not familiar with the 757 (as I'm not with the Gulfstream, never flew it in real life) but the VNAV works very well (not as well as the B744 or B748) and some companies part fo their SOP is to have VNAV armed before T.O. Yes, some of us like to play with the buttons (in any airplane no matter how sophisticated it might be) for whatever reasons.

I'm very disappointed that this project is unfinished and full of bugs plus, that I didn't pay attention that they don't have a re-found policy.

I loved the airplane, the way it flies, the way it looks and I was hoping to be much better than it is. 

Share this post


Link to post

I'll say it again, the 757 is fast becoming a flying fossil so why pay to fly that dinosaur?  And the Captain fixing bugs: Hah hah...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, killthespam said:

From the picture, if you pay attention, the airplane being on a/p just busted the 4000 ft altitude (by 760 FT) and was recovering.

And for the "flaps still down" you should realize that the airplane was accelerating (look close at the speed trend vector) while flaps is in clean up schedule.  

So the real question here is "what in the world the a/p is doing climbing through 4000".

I understand that you not familiar with the 757 (as I'm not with the Gulfstream, never flew it in real life) but the VNAV works very well (not as well as the B744 or B748) and some companies part fo their SOP is to have VNAV armed before T.O. Yes, some of us like to play with the buttons (in any airplane no matter how sophisticated it might be) for whatever reasons.

I'm very disappointed that this project is unfinished and full of bugs plus, that I didn't pay attention that they don't have a re-found policy.

I loved the airplane, the way it flies, the way it looks and I was hoping to be much better than it is. 

According to my notes from previous days In the past using other 757 panels, the 757 climb schedule was V2+15 to 1000, then set a 1000 fpm climb rate (lower if really heavy) and accelerate to 250 while retracting the flaps: flaps 5 at Vref+20, flaps 1 at Vref+40, and Flaps up at Vref+60.  It just seems odd that you're still flaps 5 at over 4000 feet AGL and 13 knots shy of reaching limit speed in that configuration...  Anyway, it was intended as a good-natured poke.

I understand that the A/P in the real jet works as it should, and that the CS autopilot does not.  I'm just saying that from my experience flying several acft with exceptional advanced FMS/autopilot modes, we still didn't fully use the automation in normal ops, as good as it was.  So it wouldn't be a showstopper--for ME--to operate the add-on like that, since it's what I used to do in the real world.  And I'm not suggesting CaptainSim is excused for getting it wrong--surely others (PMDG, Level-D, FSL, etc) have shown it can be done right.

So my conclusion is that if that's all that's wrong with their 757, I'd consider it usable but certainly in need of refinement.  So maybe it'd be worth buying it at a discount some day, or maybe even at its regular price if they ever get a working cargo version released, with virtually no other decent narrowbody cargo options in P3Dv4.  Just a handful of add-ons are as good as the very few on the top tier, so it all boils down to what we're willing to live with to fly the other jets that we want in absence of other, better options.  If you're a P3D simmer and a real fan of the 757, you don't really have other options at present, so the question for the OP and others considering the CS757 is whether its known shortcomings are something you can live with in a ~$90 add-on.  It would be completely reasonable to say "heck no", and it might also be reasonable to say "well, OK, I'll hold my nose and live with it because this is one I really want to fly."

Regards

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
38 minutes ago, overspeed3 said:

I'll say it again, the 757 is fast becoming a flying fossil so why pay to fly that dinosaur?

The 757 is still a mainstay in the cargo business. 

About 30% of both the UPS and FedEx fleets are 757-200Fs--more than any other acft type in either of their fleets.  Neither company has announced any plans to phase out the 757 in their future plans.  When FedEx finishes replacing their A300/A310 jets with 767s, the 767 will outnumber the 757 there, but still they currently plan on keeping all 119 of the 757s.

Regards

Share this post


Link to post

I'm going to be brutally honest as an owner of both.

Get the PMDG 748. No question.

Because, for reasons mentioned above...

the CS 757 is junk...

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, w6kd said:

GSX

If only it could distinguish the difference between a 400 Pax and a -400F RH front door to do a catering call, as it stupidly keeps asking to open the RH Fwd Door, when none exists!

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now