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J van E

I wish LM would solve this... cloud shadows!

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One of my major annoyances with P3D is how the cloud shadows pop in and out of view depending on where you look. This is so immersion killing...! Will LM ever do something about this? Just had this happening again (as in every flight I do) while taxiing: you are covered in shadows, you look sideways for 1 millimeter (I use TrackIR) and the shadows are gone completely. Sooooooo annoying. Check these screenshots and imaging the change happening instantly and constantly when looking left and right. Again, I really hope LM will have another look at this some time...

2018-11-25-11-52-56-549.jpg

2018-11-25-11-52-52-843.jpg

 

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Have you posted this at the Prepar3D forums (LM website)?.

Cheers, Ed

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Think this has been there from day one, maybe that will change if they ever move to a new rendering engine.

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I agree Jeroen, it's REALLY bad. It will soon become less of an annoyance to me as I am increasingly getting closer to dumping P3d in favour of XP.

Edited by Rockliffe
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I agree Jeroen, but I wont leave P3D to XP over it; P3D's add-ons are far superior to XP's and they always will be.🙂

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Jeroen is right... unfortunately 😏

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Oddly enough I saw some peoples say this is not annoying them at all..

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I believe it was a feature implemented to improve performance. I agree that it can be quite jarring. I live with it as my old GTX770 is just adequate enough to run the sim with a little bit of eye candy. For those that have the system, though, it would be nice to have the option to draw all shadows. 

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15 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

I believe it was a feature implemented to improve performance.

I don't remember hearing that, do you remember when this was part of a feature list?

I would think that LM would make this a possible "cfg option", or part of the slider detail, but a "feature", its not what I would call a feature.

However, if it was added as a "feature", it was likely added because of OOM in V3, I can't imagine this being added to V4. 

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31 minutes ago, pracines said:

I don't remember hearing that, do you remember when this was part of a feature list?

I don’t remember exactly...It has been a few years. I just recall shadows having a pretty significant performance penalty initially and this was one of the measures LM took to lessen the blow.

...then again, my wife says my memory has gone south, so I could have completely made this up 😂

Edited by snglecoil

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1 hour ago, snglecoil said:

I believe it was a feature implemented to improve performance.

I heard about this also, but I really can't understand how the shadow appear/disappear could improve performance?

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2 hours ago, pracines said:

I agree Jeroen, but I wont leave P3D to XP over it; P3D's add-ons are far superior to XP's and they always will be.🙂

Switching to XP would be like leaving a wife you really love because she has a freckle. 

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Irritating it is. Especially when above the clouds and panning around the aircraft.

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You guys just noticed this? Hah! The reason LM doesn't fix it is it is a rare occurrence in a clean installation of P3d4 using default IQ settings. But once one uses high end settings, adds a weather add-on and changes cloud textures and structures, the cloud shadow bug becomes obvious. Rapid panning with Track IR really shows the obvious nature of this bug.

The problem is that the shadow/sun angle calculations have a bug in the math. It's somewhere buried in the shader code. In flat terrain the bug is less common. It is also less common at low sun angles. High mesh and tesselation settings make things worse also. I've found that ASCA clouds make things worse and Rex Sky Force clouds make the situation slightly better.

I have to agree with Bobsk8 though. Compared to the state of clouds and weather in XP11, this bug in P3d4 is a trivial matter. You all should visit the HiFi forum and read their disheartening update regarding the state of the Active Sky for XP11 beta.

Edited by jabloomf1230

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I agree Jeroen and I hope they will solve this one soon, frustrating to say the least 😉

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I would hope so also, but I think that fixing this bug is like asking LM to update the P3d legacy ATC logic. I suspect LM doesn't have both the time and the expertise to fix it. Hear me out on this before you think that I'm insulting LM. The logic behind ATC is extremely complicated. It's not so much a coding issue as it is posessing the expertise on the fine details of real world ATC.

The same is true of the math behind the projection of shadows from clouds onto terrain and objects. What works when projecting the shadow of a solid wing onto the console of the user's aircraft may fall apart when projecting the sun's light through billboard cloud sprites onto undulating terrain. There's a lot of math here that disguises the simple end result. I think that LM just doesn't want to mess around with it and make things worse. Look how long it took them to fix a similar issue, "spinning clouds".

What surprises me about this bug is that Rob A. never responds in the many threads here on this topic. On the official P3d forums, I've also never seen a detailed response by any LM staff. You never know though. Maybe one day the bug will be fixed.

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40 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

You guys just noticed this?

No....its a holiday weekend and flight simmers have a little more time to discuss sundry items.😊

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58 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

You all should visit the HiFi forum and read their disheartening update regarding the state of the Active Sky for XP11 beta.

Must have missed this.
Do you have a link to that? 🙂

(Sorry, I'm lazy. I could find it myself, but - as I said - I'm lazy...)

On a personal reflection: In my opinion, there's something fundamentally wrong, with how P3D displays clouds and ligting. The very idea of these fake 3D clouds - which are actually 2D sprites, which spins, to create an illusion of volume, is just weird and wrong, IMO.

It's no wonder, that shadow clouds (how they're created is a mystery, since clouds haven't gotten any mass or volume) are faked somehow. Another immersion killer is having cockpit/VC shadows, when there's overcast or foggy weather. 

It seems like, that cloud shadows aren't created the same way, as if the clouds were actually objects with mass. I can (to a point) understand why this solution was chosen, back in the day... it's performance saving. But in a perfect world, the clouds should be displayed, the way clouds actually are - as condensed water vapor... but that would/is probably impossible... 

I was quite thrilled, when Dovetail Games implemented trueSKY into FlightSim World - but that didn't last... To be honest, it is my dearest hope, that Lockheed-Martin, at some point, would completely overhaul the weather and cloud depiction engine within P3D. 

Edited by Anders Bermann

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4 hours ago, Oliver Ooi said:

Oddly enough I saw some peoples say this is not annoying them at all..

LOL..yea I'm one of the freaks who is annoyed by this fault just a very little bit 🤪 .

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5 hours ago, pracines said:

I agree Jeroen, but I wont leave P3D to XP over it; P3D's add-ons are far superior to XP's and they always will be.🙂

Agreed. I am thinking about reinstalling XP frequently (specially after seeing the TE GB screenshots) but whenever I think about all the things I will be missing I just can't be bothered.

5 hours ago, Oliver Ooi said:

Oddly enough I saw some peoples say this is not annoying them at all..

Maybe they don't use something like TrackIR: it's much more annoying when you can easily look around.

3 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Switching to XP would be like leaving a wife you really love because she has a freckle. 

I am sure Howard isn't thinking about switching to XP just because of this bug. 😉

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Is it just me or is this turning into a XP thread ... 🤨

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1 hour ago, J van E said:
6 hours ago, Oliver Ooi said:

Oddly enough I saw some peoples say this is not annoying them at all..

Maybe they don't use something like TrackIR: it's much more annoying when you can easily look around.

LOL Nr.2 😀 !  I consider myself a Hardcore TrackIR User (have even made a customized Track Hat on my own). 

It is wat it is: it just annoys me almost nothing, and others too probably.  People are different in their sensitivness!

I grew up in a windy, mountanious area in the heart of Europe and such a cloud shadow/light behaviour, discribed like above, is not that unrealistic as someone might think, especially on late summer/early autumn (on ground AND on mountain peaks):

"In one moment you are covered in dark shadows, almost no light, and within in a few seconds your body is brightened with full sun light, because cloud shadows disappeared in a sudden.

But yes, of course it would be nice if Lockheed will fix it to get the behaviour of cloud shadows more realistic in sim.

Edited by KBUR
English is NOT my mother tongue.
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10 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Is it just me or is this turning into a XP thread ... 🤨

When discussing features/failures of either sim, the mentioning of another sim is inevitable, and to be expected. This is reason 63,286 why I would rather have only 1 simulator with all of the best features of all sims from all time.

Competition elsewhere is fine, but in this community competition does not serve that great a purpose, especially because of how quick differences of taste or opinion turn into a war. Though we need and should stick together, we are so divided.  

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You never know this may come in v5 at some cost to performance then just sit back and listen to the moaning, we want every thing in but be able to run it at 60fps good luck with that. 

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