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AviatorMan

Autogen issues on long flights: additional observations

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This has already been discussed in the last few weeks: in P3Dv4, autogen disappears when at altitude on a long flight, then slowly and belatedly reappears when approaching the destination airport. I did a few tests. Flying the PMDG DC-6B (a fairly complex aircraft) I departed London Gatwick (EGKK) for Manchester (EGCC) and ascended to 8000 feet. Cruising at about 220 knots, the autogen completely disappeared around 8 nm south of the the BNN VOR (113.75) waypoint (about 40 nm from EGKK)) . Rather than continue to Manchester, I decided to descend and land at nearby London Luton, and the autogen started to reappear when I was at about 3000 feet and had slowed to around 160 nm.

Wondering if altitude were a factor, I repeated the flight in the DC-6 at the same cruise speed but at low altitude (3000 ft): same result; the autogen disappeared again at about the same distance from EGKK, i.e., 8 nm south of BNN 113.75.

I decided to repeat the flight in a less complex aircraft - the Realair B60 Piston Duke. After takeoff from EGKK I cruised at 3000 feet at close to 220 knots. The autogen disappeared at nearly exactly the same point: 8nm south of VOR 113.75.

I wondered if speed were a factor. The faster you are flying, the autogen has to be loaded more quickly. I departed EGKK again in the Duke B60 ascended to 3000 feet and flew the entire flight at around 165 knots or under. When I reached the VOR 113.75, autogen was still there and loading just ahead in a rolling wave. It stayed that way for the entire flight and never completely disappeared.

Conclusion? Not sure. A memory issue? But if that is the case, when you are flying at higher altitudes (>8,000 ft) you see no autogen below. At high altitude, the autogen is not continuously reloading, so why wouldn't that allow the memory to clear so that when you descend to land and slow the aircraft, the autogen would immediately load, rather than slowly and belatedly load as several simmers have noted in previous threads.

Btw, I did not notice this issue when flying P3D4.1 and 4.2.


My system specs: i7 4790k @4.0 GHz, Nvidia GeForce 970, 16 Gb RAM, Windows 10.  Sim: P3Dv4.5 Professional; Orbx Global and Vector, Orbx OpenLC Eu and NA, and most Orbx FTX regions in EU and NA. Preferred aircraft: PMDG DC-6, Manfred Jahn DC-3 and A2A Bonanza, Comanche and Cherokee

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Autogen-Loading problems occur when your CPU can't keep up with rendering it.

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System: i9 9900k@5.1 - 16 GB RAM - Aorus 1080ti 11GB

Sim/Addons: P3D v4.5HF @ 5760x1080 with ORBX Global, Vector, openLC EUR, EU Germany N&S/ENG/Wales/SCO/
IRE/NOR, Trees HD; AS4 + SF3D + EF, Envshade, FS Global Ultimate NG, EZDOK 2+TrackIR and PMDG 737NGX + Immersive Audio, PMDG 777-200, GSX2, UT Live + 3D Sounds, ProATC and many 3rd Party Airports

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This is the result of your PC not able to keep up with the graphics settings and add-ons you have installed at your flight speed.

Your options:

1.  Don't use Unlimited and set TFR value and FFTF value that will solve the problem with least amount of FPS loss

2.  Disable scenery add-ons not being used in your flight route

3.  Reduce AG graphic settings (AG building and or LOD radius)

Cheers, Rob.

 

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TFR = Target Frame Rate ... don't use "Unlimited" but set it to a workable value ... that value will be experimental and will vary by one's hardware/software/add-on/virtual location.

Cheers, Rob.

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38 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

TFR = Target Frame Rate ... don't use "Unlimited" but set it to a workable value ... that value will be experimental and will vary by one's hardware/software/add-on/virtual location.

Cheers, Rob.

One more quick question Rob...

Should this be done in the sim, or with NVI etc..??


Scott

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13 minutes ago, SunDevil56 said:

Should this be done in the sim, or with NVI etc..??

In P3D graphics UI.

Cheers, Rob.

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Rob your video is for 4.3...not 4.4

Wait this issue is in 4.4? I need to check? very confusing


FSBetaTesters2.png

So many addons; So little time to play with them all.

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5 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

Rob your video is for 4.3...not 4.4

The issue is present in v4.4, however, v4.4 has a little more efficiency so it takes higher graphics settings, and/or faster aircraft speed, and/or more add-ons to make the fibers fall behind and eventually give up when running Unlimted.  So still need to find the balance, you just get a little more headroom with v4.4.

Cheers, Rob.

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A very good day Rob,

First I would like to thank you for your help and dedication  towards our community.

My understanding is that you part of the beta team for P3D LM ( I might be wrong ), I'm quite amazed that  after V4.0 this issue with autogen rendering is still going on for a very large number of people and after over an year they did not addressed this issue. 

I want to make sure that you understand my point and don't take it as a challenge toward you, IMHO we should not tamper and make all these adjustments in config files hoping to fix something that is related to a problem inside the program  coding.

Now, being involved as a tech adviser for a vendor I fully understand what's going on behind the closed doors, but not fixing something that is so visible it seems to be a odd.

At the same time I was looking at a survey where there is a trend among sim community where P3D LM is actually loosing ground towards other flight simulators for different reasons.

I'm not gonna ask for an answer (especially if you might be part of the beta team) and as far for speculations, we have already too many.

What would be helpful, if you have any contact with them, the large number of us which have these issues will appreciate very much indeed a fix to this issue that is going on.

Again thank you! 


Kind regards,

Alex Nic

Intel Core I9-9900K@5.0 GHz, Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti, Samsung 2 x  850 Evo 500GB, G.SKILL Trident Z DDR4 3200 64GB,WIN10 PRO 64

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21 minutes ago, killthespam said:

What would be helpful, if you have any contact with them, the large number of us which have these issues will appreciate very much indeed a fix to this issue that is going on.

Not sure I understand, my video outlines the issue and how to adjust your settings so that it doesn't happen?  Nothing to "tamper" with ... just adjust your graphic settings and find the "balance" that works for your hardware and add-ons.

I have those other platforms and even AF2 doesn't render AG buildings as far as P3D V4.4 is capable of ... I think I did a video outlining AF2, XP11, and P3D AG density and distance differences ... but don't think I published it as it would just continue the X vs. Y debates and I'm not interest in those types of debates.

However, I have done and continue to ask LM if there is any additional optimization they can do with the "batched" AG buildings ... unfortunately because of the uniqueness of the buildings (if you look at other platforms you'll notice they have fewer building variants in their AG) they require more draw calls.  LM "might" be able to improve on this by reducing the quantity of unique buildings (note unique doesn't mean "size" differences, but actual unique surface models) but LM have avoided such tasks as they usually leave things like this to content providers like Orbx and others.  I believe Orbx are working on HD buildings product (not released yet) that they have optimized (most likely fewer draw calls) that might help improve overall AG building performance.

LM is in it for the long game, so I'm sure we'll see more optimizations coming down the line as they continue to progress the platform.

Cheers, Rob.

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I afraid that "tamper" was a poor word to use in this case, my apologies.

There is no question that you constantly try to help, and everybody is appreciating this. THANK YOU!

It was a reason why I didn't mention any other vendor names, I do also dislike debates.

I do hope that "we'll see more optimizations coming down the line" after such a long time.

Best regards and again thank you! 


Kind regards,

Alex Nic

Intel Core I9-9900K@5.0 GHz, Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti, Samsung 2 x  850 Evo 500GB, G.SKILL Trident Z DDR4 3200 64GB,WIN10 PRO 64

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i think the fact that the autogen pops up in big chunks in front is the main issue--immersion killer.  if LM can just get us where FS9 was in terms of using alpha fade to get the objects to gradually fade in/out, this slow autogen load problem can be somewhat acceptable.  

is alpha fade a real gfx card breaker?  i would think less so than the uP and gfx card burning power and i/o bandwidth trying to load and render a large area and always hopelessly falling behind (and giving up) with what we have now on p3dv4. 


i7-6700k @4.5GHz 16G XMP-3200 | GTX1080ti | 1TSDD | Win10 | TIR | TMCougar | CHyoke/TQ/peds | 55" 4k UHDTV | OR cv1 | P3Dv4

 

 

 

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There is no way to keep the TFR unlimited without reducing the graphical settings?

Because indeed the best immersion for me is on the distance of display and the number of buildings and even more the night with the ORBX lights ...

Is there a way to be able to keep in ilimity by touching the TBM or FFTF ...

I still noticed a slight difference on the loading in v4.4

Because when I lock 30FPS in the SIM is still very jerky it's not smooth even with a FFTF 0.10

Knowing that I just changed screen which is now at 50Hertz may be that blocking at 30 is not good ...

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46 minutes ago, Axis3600 said:


Because when I lock 30FPS in the SIM is still very jerky it's not smooth even with a FFTF 0.10

I have the same issue, lots of stutters.

I don't know, on my PC ver 4.2 was not so bad. I just build a new PC with I9 9900K @ 5.0 with GeForce RTX 2080 Ti and is still the same issue, unfortunately no adjustments for many of us don't help at all.

I wish that P3D LM stops playing with all these eye candy stuff and fixes this issue that is going on for such a long time that is acknowledged by so many people.

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Kind regards,

Alex Nic

Intel Core I9-9900K@5.0 GHz, Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti, Samsung 2 x  850 Evo 500GB, G.SKILL Trident Z DDR4 3200 64GB,WIN10 PRO 64

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