JackJones

Lear 35 FMS UNS

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Hi all,

I´m new in this topic, but I tried to managed to read most of the posts, you guys did here in the last few month, to get myself an overview about what was already talked about.

 

To my person:

I´m flying the Lear 35 for a company in Germany since a couple of month (so I do not have that much experience on the Lear, like Joe).

Mostly we do medevac flights, so I looked with interested to the Lear 35 mods, you guys mentioned in some former threads (Avcon, ZR-Lite and longer Tip-Tanks 😉 ) Anyhow, this is a “nice to have” thing, but not really needed for the time being. A lot of modification on the aircraft has to be done too, which makes it more or less a new/additional aircraft (Weight, Limitations and flight dynamics).

I´m looking forward to finally get the new version 4.1A, as my vendor didn´t got it so far and couldn´t deliver it to me (for download of course) – Vendor = SimHack.net (I opened already a Ticket on this).

As I could see, in the new version have a lot of things changed, which I´m urgently waiting for 😉

 

Back to the Lear:

Due to the new and upcoming regulations (FAA/EASA), we started to build in the GTN750 as dual installation on our Lears. This will be a step by step process, so most of our Lears are still operating with the FMS UNS 1K (or similar), as well in single and double configuration, depends like all on the Lear.

I have no Idea about the Lears in the US, but I could imagine that most of them working with the UNS too, don´t they? Maybe Joe can tell me more about it.

My question is about the UNS: Does FSW take this into consideration for a later update in the future? The UNS is very powerful instrument to get a lot of Data out of it, to plan your trip during your flight.

 

Thanks

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Most Lear 35s I have seen in the US do have variants of the UNS-1, which is indeed a very versatile unit - especially the newer versions with WAAS, that are certified for LPV approaches.

The problem is that there is no FS developer that produces a generic UNS-1 FMS add-on that can be dropped into a broad variety of 3rd party aircraft as the RXP or F1 GTN units can.

The only realistic UNS flight sim emulation I have ever seen is the one produced by Majestic for their Q400, and that unit is tightly integrated only into that one specific model. It can’t be used in any other add-on aircraft.

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8 hours ago, JackJones said:

My question is about the UNS: Does FSW take this into consideration for a later update in the future? The UNS is very powerful instrument to get a lot of Data out of it, to plan your trip during your flight.

 

Thanks

Yes, FSW is currently exploring the options for possibly putting a UNS-1 like FMC in the Lear35 as a future project.

Al

Edited by ark

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1 hour ago, ark said:

Yes, FSW is currently exploring the options for possibly putting a UNS-1 like FMC in the Lear35 as a future project.

Al

So glad you are keeping this plane alive with future updates. hope one day this will lead to you getting recognition as THE Bizjet developer.

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Hi guys,

sorry, was on a longer trip, so couldn´t react on your answers.

 

It´s good to hear, that FSW is still developing on this wonderful aircraft.

If I can give you any support with that, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Jack

 

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One thing that sim pilots need to keep in mind is that operating an aircraft with an FMS driving analog flight instruments is more challenging than what many of us are used to in sim airliners that have both an FMS and a moving map on an MFD display.

The GTN option does offer “FMS-like” features (with the disadvantage that the navigation database is not regularly updated), and also offers a moving map display. The map certainly improves situational awareness, and sim pilots used to flying aircraft with an electronic nav display may be more dependent on that than they realize.

There are many older analog cockpit Lears and Falcons equipped with either a Universal UNS-1 or Honeywell GNS-XLS FMS, but they still require “flying the needles” (more like old-fashioned VOR-To-VOR navigation), where the pilots have to keep situational awareness, i.e. “the picture” of the aircraft’s position relative to the flight plan course, SID/STAR, approach procedure etc. in their heads. This requires regular in-flight reference to published charts in either paper or electronic form to “see” upcoming course changes, descent path and altitude restrictions etc.

Of course, in the sim world, there are many external moving map programs that be used in conjunction with an aircraft with analog flight instruments, and even in real world flying, pilots now have the option of using modern iPads or other tablets which can show the aircraft’s position and flight plan route graphically with apps like ForeFlight - but to truly emulate how flights were conducted in the pre-iPad, pre GTN-750 era in Lear 35s Falcon 50s etc (even with an add-on FMS), sim pilots would need to practice using charts and “keeping the picture in their head” more than many are probably used to.

 

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38 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

Of course, in the sim world, there are many external moving map programs that be used in conjunction with an aircraft with analog flight instruments.......

 

An excellent, and free, moving map program in this regard is LIttle Navmap. LNM can display instrument approaches, SIDs and STARS, and can make use of Navigraph data.

https://albar965.github.io/littlenavmap.html

Al

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21 minutes ago, ark said:

An excellent, and free, moving map program in this regard is LIttle Navmap. LNM can display instrument approaches, SIDs and STARS, and can make use of Navigraph data.

https://albar965.github.io/littlenavmap.html

Al

LNM is an excellent program! I use it mainly for preflight planning.

In my own sim flights, I use Foreflight on an iPad. In P3D I use the FSXFlight app to send the aircraft data to ForeFlight. X-Plane 11 has ForeFlight connectivity built in. (P3D V4 does too, but I find that FSXFlight works better.)

But, there are times I like to go “full retro”, and fly “1960s-1970s” style, navigating on Airways from VOR-to-VOR, and avoiding any RNAV departure or arrival procedures. My two favorite aircraft for that are the FlyJSim 737-200 and 727-200 in X-Plane.

Both of those aircraft (similar to the Falcon), have only very basic autopilots, and no autothrottles.

When doing that, I still use ForeFlight for current charts, but do not use the moving map function.

It’s a nice change of pace to navigate to specific waypoints based strictly on VOR radials and DME distances, or even as the crossing point of two different VOR radials.

We can, of course, do that in the FSW Falcon as well if no GNS/GTN option is used - emulating what flying the 50 was like when it was first introduced, before GPS became available.

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29 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

It’s a nice change of pace to navigate to specific waypoints based strictly on VOR radials and DME distances, or even as the crossing point of two different VOR radials.

 

.... and hand flying NDB approaches!

Al

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3 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

One thing that sim pilots need to keep in mind is that operating an aircraft with an FMS driving analog flight instruments is more challenging than what many of us are used to in sim airliners that have both an FMS and a moving map on an MFD display.

The GTN option does offer “FMS-like” features (with the disadvantage that the navigation database is not regularly updated), and also offers a moving map display. The map certainly improves situational awareness, and sim pilots used to flying aircraft with an electronic nav display may be more dependent on that than they realize.

There are many older analog cockpit Lears and Falcons equipped with either a Universal UNS-1 or Honeywell GNS-XLS FMS, but they still require “flying the needles” (more like old-fashioned VOR-To-VOR navigation), where the pilots have to keep situational awareness, i.e. “the picture” of the aircraft’s position relative to the flight plan course, SID/STAR, approach procedure etc. in their heads. This requires regular in-flight reference to published charts in either paper or electronic form to “see” upcoming course changes, descent path and altitude restrictions etc.

Of course, in the sim world, there are many external moving map programs that be used in conjunction with an aircraft with analog flight instruments, and even in real world flying, pilots now have the option of using modern iPads or other tablets which can show the aircraft’s position and flight plan route graphically with apps like ForeFlight - but to truly emulate how flights were conducted in the pre-iPad, pre GTN-750 era in Lear 35s Falcon 50s etc (even with an add-on FMS), sim pilots would need to practice using charts and “keeping the picture in their head” more than many are probably used to.

 

This. Both of our 35's have UNS-1's, and neither airplane has a moving map of any kind. Honestly, once you realize how powerful the Universal is, you really never find yourself wanting a moving map anyways. Good instrument flying skills and spatial awareness, paired with a powerful FMS, results in an aircraft and crew that's just as capable without a moving map as they are with one. I've flown the 35 all over the country without a moving map (or TCAS for that matter) in every weather situation you can imagine. Your mind becomes the moving map and everything works out just fine!

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For those of you who don't read the Falcon 50 threads, FSW recently posted that an FMS is being developed by Ernie Alston for the Lear 35 ( and eventually the Falcon 50).  It is being closely modeled after the UNS-1 FMS in the Lear35s flown by FSW's chief pilot, Joe. The FMS is still in the early development stage, and since it will go on the center console between the seats the Lear's radios need to be moved up to the main panel. There also will be an update to the HSI (glass instead of a steam gauge) to facilitate the display of additional information, so there is quite a bit of work to be done and it will take a while. The FMS will be offered as a separately priced add-on for those that want it. 

Al

Edited by ark

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