ols500

Second hand £300 GTX1080 or new RTX2070 £450

Recommended Posts

Hi, I am looking for a new graphics card for December (gonna save up my pocket money and sell my Xbox 1) I think my GPU is the bottleneck? I have i5 8600K @4.5ghz and GTX 1060 6GB. However, I get stutters when a few cores hit 100% usage. So could it be a CPU bottleneck? Anyway I know there are plenty of second-hand GTX 1080s for £300-£350, which is very good, but I'm nervous with second-hand hardware... Also, will a GTX 1080 be worth it compared to a brand new RTX 2070? I can buy that for £450. So how does a GTX 1080 & an RTX 2070 compare? I was going to go with an RTX 2060, but VRAM is starting to become an issue. 6GBs is now not sufficient. Any comments of this and advice?

 

Thanks, Ollie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I'm in a similar situation - except with an Ryzen 5 1600. From my recent research, the 1080 and 2070 preform relatively similarly, with the 2070 having a slight edge due to it being more recent. If you can safely buy a 1080 that is cheaper than a 2070, I'd reckon that makes for a good decision. 

However if you aren't sure it's a GPU bottleneck or a CPU bottleneck I would keep task manager open during a few flights and see what the CPU and GPU loads are like during different situations.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, ols500 said:

Hi, I am looking for a new graphics card for December (gonna save up my pocket money and sell my Xbox 1) I think my GPU is the bottleneck? I have i5 8600K @4.5ghz and GTX 1060 6GB. However, I get stutters when a few cores hit 100% usage. So could it be a CPU bottleneck? Anyway I know there are plenty of second-hand GTX 1080s for £300-£350, which is very good, but I'm nervous with second-hand hardware... Also, will a GTX 1080 be worth it compared to a brand new RTX 2070? I can buy that for £450. So how does a GTX 1080 & an RTX 2070 compare? I was going to go with an RTX 2060, but VRAM is starting to become an issue. 6GBs is now not sufficient. Any comments of this and advice?

 

Thanks, Ollie.

I have the same CPU as you, though I have a GTX1070 rather than a 1060. I'll be ordering an i7-9700k fairly soon. The reason for that is that, in my case, I almost never see my GTX1070 hit 100% use in task manager.

Let me give a specific example. FlyTamapa's CYYZ is very hard on my system. I typically have fairly low FPS there, perhaps 15-18. At the same time, my GPU is being utilized 40-50%. If I were to use a night environment with dynamic lights enabled, my GPU usage goes up to ~70%, but the frames remain at 15-18, typically. If I were to look away from the terminal, my GPU usage hardly changes, yet my FPS go back to 25+. To me, all this means that my GPU is not the bottle neck, and it's far more likely that my CPU is. Hence I'm going for an i7-9700k. I will also add that there is only one time when I saw my GPU maxing out: I was cruising at FL350 and around me ASP4 created multiple layers of overcast clouds. My FPS weere halved as my GPU was maxed out: a clear indication that, in this particular case, my GPU was a bottle neck. But the fact that this only happened once, again means that overall my GTX1070 is just fine.

So here's my suggestion to you.Go to a place where your FPS are not too good, and check the usage of your CPU and GPU. If your FPS are dwindling despite your GPU being under-utilize, it means your CPU is likely a bottle neck. You can do a variety of scenarios such as I outlined above, that would test these two components to different degrees.

From my experience, my 'short answer' to you is that it's likely that your CPU is the bottle neck, and you might not need to invest money in a new GPU. That said, a GTX1060, because it has only 6GB VRAM, may constitute a different bottle neck at a later date, and so upgrading that may not be a bad decision. In my mind a GTX1070 will do the job just fine. But if you have money to spare, you may just want to get the RTX2070.

I will add that I'd be a little weary of a second-hand GTX1080. You should probably inquire whether or not it has been used for crypto mining, as those algorithms really hammer your GPU.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@Benjamin J

Thanks for your post, I will be torn if its a CPU bottleneck as I will probably have to upgrade the cooler as well, an additional £100 for a good one. So I will do some testing. 

Edited by ols500

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Ok heres my ultimate test. 

EGLL

PMDG 777

Night time in heavy rain with traffic orbx rex skyforce, PTA, dynamic lighting etc. 

Around 16-23 fps...

Both my CPU and GPU sit around 40%, which would indicate no bottleneck, so why is my FPS lower. In theory, shouldn't the CPU and GPU be working at a higher % to push out higher FPS? Especially the CPU.

Also, this is strange (CPU usage % average)

CPU1 100%

CPU2  98%

CPU3  33%

CPU4  8%

CPU5  5%

CPU6  5%

 

Why isn't P3D using more than 3 main cores?

56 minutes ago, Benjamin J said:

You should probably inquire whether or not it has been used for crypto mining, as those algorithms really hammer your GPU.

Yes bitcoin has ruined a lot of good GPUs... If I do decide to use a GTX 1080 I will question the owner. 

Edited by ols500

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also keep in mind that the newer RTX cards use GDDR6, which may also be a point in favour of the RTX choice rather than a used GTX.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think those test numbers are perfectly normal. You may want to look at this this thread:  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't it seems like the CPU is not "pushing" its self to deliver more FPS?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

P3D, being based on the older FSX code is heavily CPU bound. From what I understand, back in the day when they released FSX (2007!! Keep in mind this software is 12 years old!) people assumed that the direction the hardware was going was faster and faster single, perhaps dual core processors. We had not quite reached the limit of our current materials could deliver in terms of connectivity and speeds (silicone is a major hurdle here, and all of our microchips are based on this...). And so, rather than having one or two very fast processors, we ended up going with multi-core CPUs, and off-loading a lot of graphics processing to the GPU. Sadly, FSX was never made to do that, hence the reliance of FSX on the CPU, without using the GPU that much. And not just merely relying on the CPU: it relies heavily on single thread, underutilizing the other five or seven cores you might have in your CPU!

Now here the critical point: P3D inherited all of these constraints from FSX. The P3D team have, however, been very diligent in moving P3D away from these basic constraints. One thing is making P3D 64bit, and another one is trying to open up P3D into a little more of a multi-threaded app. But at least one major improvement is that P3D's added features make a lot of use of the GPU. Dynamic lights are a prime example: if you have them in your field of view, you'll see your GPU usage go up. However, a lot of the more basic rendering functions of the scenery are still majorly handled by the CPU, from what I understand. Hence having a strong GPU is not particularly necessary. A GTX1070 will typically be perfectly fine for most use cases.

So, with all that in mind, unless your CPU is somehow throttled due to an imperfect OC of some sort, it's unlikely your CPU is underdelivering. I'm pretty sure P3D is utilizing your CPU as much as it was made to utilize it. And the percentages you posted are exactly what I have and are quite normal, for all I know. Like I said, P3D is, in most part, a single-threaded app. As such, the only thing we can do is upgrading our CPU - until P3D totally revamps the architecture of P3D's very core functions. And I doubt that will happen anytime soon...

As for cooling, what are you currently using? The Noctua DH15 is really, really good, for a fan-based solution. It's not too expensive either for its cooling power. Remember that the i7-9700k is not like 8700k and previous generations CPUs: it does not do hyperthreading and instead adds two cores for a total 8 cores. Hence, like your current 8600k, it's unlikely to run as hot at high clock speeds as previous generation i7 CPUs. Personally I'll put the 9700k in my machine without changing the CPU fan, and see what I get. Given the great temps I currently get with my 8600k at a 4.8GHz OC, I'm not too concerned with the 4.9GHz Turbo boost of the 9700k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you want to try is bench testing with P3D move the sliders up to bog down your system then check the results, my CPU usage is higher on four cores HT off on ultra settings. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Check out the YouTube Vid by JayzTwoCents on bottlenecking and how to check for it, only a week old.

I cannot post a link as Avsim will not let me.

 

 

Edited by rjfry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, I apologise I am replying late-Was having a fantastic gliding day 😄

16 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

As for cooling, what are you currently using?

I am using a Be Quiet! Pure rock CPU cooler-BK009. My CPU is at 4.5Ghz with temps never really going above 70c...

So I might have to replace the cooler if I want higher FPS

16 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

P3D is, in most part, a single-threaded app

So does this mean it is better to have a more powerful CPU than a GPU?

 

16 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

Noctua DH15

If I did upgrade I will have to check the space, this is a large cooler. I have an Aerocool AERO 800 windowed gaming case, but I can check with the guys who built it at aria pc to see if this will fit.

 

16 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

it does not do hyperthreading

The i5 8600K doesn't do hyperthreading. Is it better to have it or not?

So in conclusion, it would be better to upgrade my CPU (might need a better cooler), but eventually, I will start hitting the 6GB VRAM on the GTX 1060. So to make the build stable I wil need to upgrade both CPU and GPU. If I get the i7 9700K, would I have to change motherboards? I have Z370-P. Then I would upgrade my GPU to an RTX 2070 or to save money a non-crypto mined GTX 1080.

6 hours ago, rjfry said:

Check out the YouTube Vid by JayzTwoCents on bottlenecking and how to check for it, only a week old.

Hi @rjfry I have seen Jayz video already its an interesting watch. 

 

9 hours ago, rjfry said:

What you want to try is bench testing with P3D move the sliders up to bog down your system then check the results, my CPU usage is higher on four cores HT off on ultra settings

I'll try this and get back to you on the results. 🙂

 

Thanks for the support, Ollie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe I need a CPU upgrade... Never installed a CPU, sounds scary and don't want to take it to a professional. I need to look it up 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much more FPS will I see with an i7 9700K?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, ols500 said:

How much more FPS will I see with an i7 9700K?

How many do you have now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a heavy load at EGLL, 14-18fps tops. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ols500 said:

How much more FPS will I see with an i7 9700K?

Well, I already ordered mine and it's supposed to arrive tomorrow. Depending when it arrives I might put it in tomorrow. i agree, it seems very scary... Let' see. Once I put it in and everything works I'll come back and let you know how big of an improvement it actually was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ols500 said:

Hi, I apologise I am replying late-Was having a fantastic gliding day 😄

I am using a Be Quiet! Pure rock CPU cooler-BK009. My CPU is at 4.5Ghz with temps never really going above 70c...

So I might have to replace the cooler if I want higher FPS

So does this mean it is better to have a more powerful CPU than a GPU?

If I did upgrade I will have to check the space, this is a large cooler. I have an Aerocool AERO 800 windowed gaming case, but I can check with the guys who built it at aria pc to see if this will fit.

The i5 8600K doesn't do hyperthreading. Is it better to have it or not?

So in conclusion, it would be better to upgrade my CPU (might need a better cooler), but eventually, I will start hitting the 6GB VRAM on the GTX 1060. So to make the build stable I wil need to upgrade both CPU and GPU. If I get the i7 9700K, would I have to change motherboards? I have Z370-P. Then I would upgrade my GPU to an RTX 2070 or to save money a non-crypto mined GTX 1080.

Well, to be a nitpick, your 'build' will be stable regardless of your hardware. Rather if you want to avoid bottle necks you will want to have balanced hardware. That said, your priority with P3D is CPU and your testing appears to back this up.

The 6GB VRAM on your 1060 may end up being a little tight, but this entirely depends on settings such as the max distance at which textures should be loaded or retained. You cna set this lower in order to free up VRAM. But, this means you will more often get 'blacking out' of objects once you rotate your view. But, to be hones,t my 8GB 1070 only goes over 6GB in areas such as NYC, where I have tons of custom scenery (DD's NYC city and airports). Another areas where VRMA is used  alot is photorealistic sceneries. If you aren't suing such sceneries too much, you cna probably get away with 6GB VRAM just fine.

You're correct that the Noctua is pretty big. I made sure to get a case that fits it.

I think any Z370 should work fine with the 9700k if your flashed the BIOS to a version that supports it! Check that first...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, please report back on the difference in FPS, will be very helpful considering you have a similar build. However, you are running an SSD, which I am not. How much would an SSD benefit me? My load times are 60 seconds maximum anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I reckon you'll get 2 more.. Not a bad investment. :biggrin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/21/2019 at 6:16 AM, ols500 said:

Ok, please report back on the difference in FPS, will be very helpful considering you have a similar build. However, you are running an SSD, which I am not. How much would an SSD benefit me? My load times are 60 seconds maximum anyway. 

So I put in the 9700k... But am rather unhappy with it. The FPS have overall stayed the same, and there's a new issue at OrbX TE NL. I've been suggested wiping Windows and reinstalling everything anew from the bottom up, which I do not have the time or patience for.

I'm still convinced that the CPU change should give me a bigger benefit than a new GPU, but if this is really the time investment required, I'm not sure it's worth it for me...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

😞 Feel bad for you Benjamin. Someone else on avsim recommended 4K monitor will help at 30Hz. I'm gonna get a professional to delid my i5 8600K and I'll overlock to 5Ghz or higher then install a Kraken 62 280mm water cooler and then swap my BenQ BW2270 for a 32" 4K monitor and run it at 30Hz. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ols500 said:

... and then swap my BenQ BW2270 for a 32" 4K monitor and run it at 30Hz.

I think 4k would be a bit of a stretch for your GTX 1060, even running at 30Hz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now